[Chapter-delegates] Interim Information: Serious considerations to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter

[Bryan Tan]

I think I should respond as this is the second time my sentence has been
quoted and has taken a personal tone.

It is really unhelpful to write a long email with long quotations of entire
emails. My problem is understanding what the issue or issues are in order
to respond. If the issues are not clear, then the discussions will be 'all
over the shop'. I think it is clear that has turned out to be the case.

I therefore sought to identify the problem in order to focus the
discussion. As I read and re-read the original emails, I still find the
issues vaguely as 'problems', which does not help people trying to respond.
On 17 Oct 2013 10:00, "Norbert Klein" <nhklein at gmx.net> wrote:

>
>  Dear Members of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter,
>
>  and per copy for information, shared with
>
>  - Chapter Representatives,
>
>  - ISOC central and Asia-Pacific leaders and staff,
>
>
>   With this mail I would like to start a follow-up to the mail sent to
> you in September by Be Chantra, our Secretary. I do the follow-up at
> present because he and some colleagues were invited to attend a number of
> Mozilla meetings in the USA – and it is time to consider reactions and
> responses received since.
>
>  First of all we were impressed by the many mails from other Chapters,
> understanding our situation, deploring that there have often been
> inconclusive discussions between Chapters and the ISOC Staff, but at the
> same time we received so many mail urging that ISOC Staff and leadership
> might find ways to work towards a solution of the problems we had raised in
> relation to the following:
>
>  1. Structural Constraints
> 2. Experiences
> 3. Impressions
>
>  We are happy to see that the questions we had raised led to a deep
> discussion about problems of the Internet Society as a world wide
> structure, especially related to the question of the nature of the Chapters
> in their relation to general ISOC regulations and staff, where several
> Chapter leaders expressed much sympathy with our difficulties. - We will
> send later a collection of such messages.
>
>  But secondly, we have also to say that we did not receive much response
> from ISOC staff and leadership. To be more specific, we would like to share
> the following.
>
>  One Chapter leader said: “Cutting through the entire mass of text, it
> seems the only real grouse is on funding” - really wrong! Or is it
> acceptable that a regional staff member comes to the country and refuses to
> discuss what the Chapter officers and the members of the Advisory Board
> what they think to be important? Had this Chapter leader carefully read
> what our Secretary had written, he might not have said so. I will quote
> only this one section from our original letter:
>
>  = = =
>
>  “*    Dear Thip,
>
>     After having received your mail, rejecting our request to serious
> discuss the crisis for our Chapter, created as a result of the general
> situation and legal requirements in Cambodia in the meeting, and the
> refusal to ISOC staff to positively pay attention to our situation, we do
> not think it would be appropriate to cooperate, as a Chapter, with
> organizing a meeting for your 1 - 2.5 hours event, for which you would like
> to invite the Members of the Cambodia Chapter and other non-Chapter
> members. To discuss fundamental problems within ISOC, affecting the whole
> membership, only among officers, as you suggest (which has been tried in
> vain by email so far) would not be in line with our history to promote and
> practice open communication – high values regularly lifted up among the
> goals of the Internet Society world wide and in its slogan: the Internet is
> for everyone.
>
>     The situation and this response has been shared and discussed with the
> Members of the Advisory Board of our Chapter and is unanimously supported.
>
>     Norbert Klein
>     President, ISOC-KH*
>
>
>     The five members of our Advisory Board at that time were (reflecting
> the stipulation of our Bylaws “The Advisory Board of five members, from
>     important sections of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter membership”):
>
>         the Head of the IT in Education Section in the Ministry of
> Education
>         the Editor in Chief of a leading Cambodian daily newspaper, who is
> at the same time President of the Club of Cambodian Journalists
>         the President and CEO of a major broadband providing ISP
>         a senior staff member in the office of the Council of Ministers of
> the Government of Cambodia, and
>         one student.
> = = =
>
>  It is also surprising that there was no word from some “higher up” staff
> commenting on this; we assume there must be some monitoring of staff
> activities going on in ISOC, though we are not aware in which way regional
> staff is selected (without involvement of the Chapters of the regions). -
> We hope that others will better understand what kind of damage has been
> done by this treatment of our Advisory Board members, distinguished persons
> in Cambodian society.
>
>  Also other Chapter leaders have used strong language, related to outside
> financial support:
>
>      I’m following with great attention this discussion initiated by the
> Cambodian Chapter intention to leave the Internet society Great family
> which lead to the old debate about ISOC’s direct financial support to
> Chapters.
>
>      Before I continue, I would like to clearly express my opposition to
> that.
>
>  The direct financial support to Chapters for their administrative and
> running costs will make the Chapters useless, dependent and
> non-sustainable. If we put in place the systematic direct financial support
> from ISOC HQ to Chapters, we will see many useless Chapters flourish around
> the world only to benefit to that direct financial support.”
>
>  This is an interesting concept of “family” - others think that in a
> family, the resources available to the family are shared and made available
> to those who need them.
>
>  There were also different models discussed on the Chapters list, how
> ISOC could help the Chapters – for example by taking over some
> administrative or reporting tasks (including to the government) – but it is
> hardly probable that the 90 or so ISOC staff and advisers have the
> capability to handle things in the Cambodia language (some of our members
> cooperated to translate the Bylaws for the initial contacts with the
> Ministry of Interior); most such proposals try to avoid financial payments
> to the operation of the Chapter, as this – as one voice said – would result
> in a bloated staff in the Chapters.
>
>  Many of our members are actively involved in a variety of local
> information technology and communication activities: Linux and Android
> groups, a Hackerspace center, regular Barcamps since some years with
> hundreds of participants each time etc. – all that works well. - In other
> fields, related to the sharing of information which others do not like,
> where people have spoken up related to injustice and corruption: Some were
> beaten, others had to face the court (I had this experience also) or were
> sent to prison, some lost their lives – but the organizations actively
> helping towards a more just society are internationally funded. Are they
> useless? Who thinks local fund-raising in these crucial fields, related to
> the free sharing of information and opinion, is so easy?
>
>  We did not say that we just intend to leave the “Internet Society Great
> family” - but we said that we do not see any other way under the present
> Bylaw – drafted and formulated under the guidance of ISOC staff (using
> material currently on the ISOC website as mandatory text). To our surprise
> a number of Chapter reps said they do not have some of these clauses in
> their Bylaws, and we should do without them. Can we do that without being
> censored, as long there is no authoritative statement from ISOC staff and
> leadership?
>
>  One Chapter leader wrote: “Would be good to see ISOC APAC team reply on
> this list on efforts to keep the Cambodia Chapter alive.” - That is also
> what we had expected.* But we did not have any mail in response from the
> two ISOC ASIA PACIFIC staff in the office in Singapore **(except from
> occasional circulars sent to all)**.
> *
>
> A Board Member of one Chapter had written: "So let's draw in Lynn, Walda or
> whomever else actually has the power to make things happen and prevent a
> deep organizational problem." *But this also went without a response
> visible to us.*
>
>   We had mail from the more recently appointed “Chapter Development
> Manager, Asia-Pacific” Mr. Naveed Haq who had been wrongly informed that
> “ISOC staff has reached out several times to try to find a solution for the
> situation” and who called the chapter officers and members of our advisory
> board to a telephone conference, suggesting also to find “non-monetary ways
> to address the issues” - which, as we had described in detail related to
> the specific Cambodian legal framework and regulations, with a serious
> monetary aspect.
>
>  Our Secretary responded on 25 September 2013 to the ISOC Chapter
> Development Manager, Asia-Pacific, saying that such a telephone conference
> is not feasible with the Chapter officers and Advisory Board members
> engaged in their professional obligations in different places and times.
> And our secretary added in his response:
>
>  “We suggest that you first carefully re-read our mail, and then respond
> to what we wrote there, and not to some hearsay that 'ISOC staff has
> reached out several times to try to find a solution'” which is not true. *There
> was no response from him to this request.*
>
>   Mr. Ted Mooney, ISOC Senior Director, Membership & Services, wrote to
> our Secretary saying: “If the Cambodian Chapter wishes to rescind its ISOC
> chapter status, a letter so stating to the APAC Chapter Development manager
> is sufficient.” No discussion necessary? And also: "Please indicate to me
> what you really are trying to accomplish" – to which our Secretary
> responded also: “Please read our mail again, it is stated there.” *There
> was no response to him either.*
>
>  But he wrote also:* “*...the characterization of the Regional ISOC Staff
> by the Cambodian chapter as unresponsive is wholly different than what has
> been communicated to me. For the Cambodian Chapter to take this opportunity
> in a broad letter to the Board and Chapter delegates to denigrate specific
> ISOC staff is unprofessional and counter productive.” We do not know “what
> has been communicated" to the ISOC Senior Director, Membership & Services
> in this respect – but the situation continues: *neither the Singapore
> based ISOC ASIA PACIFIC staff, nor the **ISOC **Chapter Development
> Manager, Asia-Pacific, **nor the **ISOC **Senior Director, Membership &
> Services have responded to the **detailed content in the** mail from our
> Secretary* (unless it happened during the last couple of days and I have
> not yet hear about it).
>
>  But if such mail was sent and we did not receive it for whatever reasons –
> it would be appropriate to share it here on the Chapters list.
>
>  Whether the way our Secretary shared our mail widely was unprofessional,
> we leave it to others to evaluate. Obviously many Chapter leaders seem to
> have welcomed it, as it started a fundamental discussion in the ISOC
> fellowship.
>
> Finally, I am quoting here an interesting suggestions from a Chapter
> leader: "If the decision to close the chapter goes forward at least try
> to keep together board members and the current membership through an
> informal group even if the group is not a legal entity. After all, you were
> able to do many things the way you are set up at the moment."
>
>
>   I send this after the members of the Executive Committee agreed on this
> text. Finally, please remember the invitation from our Secretary:
>
>  *We would therefore call for such a meeting to discuss the dissolution
> of our Chapter, or not to do so in case practical and timely ways would
> show up within one months from sending out this mail. Such a meeting shall
> be convened as follows:
>
>     Location: #8, St. 352, BKK1, Phnom Penh (Open Institute new office)
>     Date and Time: October 26, 2013 at 2:00PM *
>
>   Please inform Chantra - chantra.be at gmail.com - whether you will
> participate or not; please send a note in either case.
>
>   With my best greetings,
>
>
>
>   Norbert Klein
> Member of the Executive Committee
> ISOC Cambodia Chapter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/attachments/20131017/7ee16d9b/attachment.htm>