[Chapter-delegates] Shutdown of Skype on our Mobile Broadband Internet Access

Tue May 28 19:35:56 PDT 2013

Wyn,

your - much to the point and very valuable - message brings to memory a couple more things on this issue:

1. telcos and bellheads (amaziingly at this stage, still a new one born every minute) will use the "bypass" argument eagerly, as in "all that Internet voice stuff is just bypass", so Wyn's points are indispensable. As he also says, some telcos will realize that the battle against VoIP is essentially lost and their best business plan is to get more people to use the also lucrative data plans. They will call them "broadband" of course.

2. another important argument we've seen through these debates is the one in which the telco, regulator, or ministry speakers says "we can't support VoIP because it's awful, and telephony should be 4-nines or even 6-nines completion, plus you have a location when you call emergency services."

We give that one a hearty laugh on the scale of ROFLMAO several times around, because their normal voice service is between not-that-good-at-all and rotten. One of the stats you may want to collect is on phone calls: line availabiitly, whether you can reach the other party's number each x% of times, percentage of calls that break before ending, and so forth, esp. for the mobile phone network. And ask them to show you their implementation of geolocalized emergency services (sort of US 9111) and the rapid response of firemen or police. In my country that's a laugh and I think we're not alone. 

This usually takes the wind out of their sails at least for a bit. 

As for Jane Coffin's offer: I think that one thing ISOC HQ/staff can supply promptly is the Network Neutrality information packages from a couple years ago. If there are updates they should be included. It seems to me that the level of the discussion to be undertaken in Ghana and the Gambia does not depend on a filigree of economic and other studies as much as on clear, solid arguments on basic Internet principles that these Chapters and their members can use both educating the regulators/governments, debating with the telcos, raising awareness in their community, and starting massive, viral campaigns should they choose so.

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .

________________________________________
Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Winthrop Yu [w.yu at gmx.net]
Enviado el: martes, 28 de mayo de 2013 20:42
Hasta: Chapter Delegates
Asunto: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Shutdown of Skype on our Mobile Broadband Internet Access

   In the Philippines our VOIP battle was fought back in 2004 by an org that
preceded ISOC-PH (rejuv) -- the Philippine Internet Commerce Society (PICS).
Our regulator the National Telecommunications Commission (NTC) is supposed to be
pro-consumer, but of course there are concerns about regulatory capture.

   At a meeting that was convened by PICS at the time, telco reps naturally
insisted that VOIP was a voice service and should be regulated as such
(including the need for a congressional franchise).  We argued that VOIP was
simply one application running over the Internet and should be treated as a
value-added service (VAS).  One NTC commissioner stood-up and declared that VOIP
was indeed a voice service, another NTC commissioner quickly responded by
declaring "he does not speak for the entire commission". :)  In the end, after
follow-up meetings, our regulator the NTC did finally declare that VOIP was a VAS.

   There are conditions -- e.g. the VOIP traffic must be pure IP and not
cross-over nor transit the telco (POTS) networks (as voice).  While the telcos
were not entirely happy with this decision, they could live with it so long as
clear by-pass was prohibited.  As a result, we are free to use Skype and similar
services, both in our homes and offices, as well as at public Internet cafes.
More significantly, placing VOIP outside the regulatory structure for voice
communications reassured the then fledgling BPO businesses.  A boom in that
industry soon followed, which in turn also brought the telcos much more revenue
in their role as ISPs.  Perhaps the foregoing could be used as a compromise
model for your regulators?

   I also note that Gambia has a diaspora workforce like the Philippines.  This
was one of the arguments (social good, particularly for those who are remitting
much needed foreigh exchange into the country) we used to convince our regulators.

   I would also like to thank ISOC-NL and Alex Blom for the open.internet.NL
app.  I've installed and tried it and can confirm that there is no blocking or
shaping of SIP traffic here in the Philippines.

Anecdotally yours,

WYn

On 5/28/2013 1:54 AM, GABRIEL LATJOR NDOW wrote:
> Thanks Alex, Alejandro and all,
>
> The info shared is quite pertinent. The press releases from the regulator and
> ministry claimed that the reason for their action was because the government -
> controlled operator was losing millions in revenue due to the voip services
> offered by the thousands of cyber cafes in the country. They however have
> clarified that private use of these services on personal mobile phones, pcs,
> etc, was still legal.
>
> This is quite odd as cyber cafes do not charge an additional fee for using
> skype, viber or any other voip services on their systems. There is only a flat
> fee (half-hourly) for internet access.  The majority of gambians are poor and
> cannot afford the rates for mobile internet on the one hand, while the very low
> literacy rate on the other hand, causes many citizens who want to communicate
> with their families abroad to use the convenience of the cyber cafes. There is a
> huge gambian diaspora and they contribute significantly to the economic welfare
> of their loved ones at home and the economy of The Gambia in general, via
> monthly subventions to their families.  This new directive will impact
> negatively on the poor and non-literate citizens' access to the internet.
>
> Gabriel Latjor Ndow
>
>
> On May 27, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> first, kudos to Alex Blom for putting forward some real help!
>>
>> The problems described here for Ghana and the Gambia can be cast in terms of
>> Network Neutrality though we know there are more than nuances to the term. It
>> describes well the basics in our situation in many economies and the technical
>> detail and policy nuance becomes second-order in our context.
>>
>> We in Mexico have been somewhat successful by campaigning against some
>> specific law initiatives that would have been very damaging, by explaining
>> that Network Neutrality or, more fundamentally, core Internet principles like
>> end-to-end mean that the Internet means "Five Alls": all ports, all protocols,
>> all contents, all origins, all destinations. Any restriction must preferably
>> be temporary, justified on the basis of law or traffic engineering
>> requirements, and explained to the client/user/citizen in transparent terms.
>>
>> We did stop cold in its tracks one initiative for Network Neutrality
>> legislation, explicitly called so, that went one step further and allowed
>> anything as long as the users were informed. We caught it at the right
>> political moment (the legislator pushing it was running in an election for a
>> new period, so was particularly vulnerable/sensitive) and the law was
>> obviously awful.
>>
>> We brought it down by pushing for the legislature to call for an open
>> multistakeholder public consultation. About fifteen minutes into the session
>> you could see on the legislators' (members of a commission) faces that the law
>> was dead.
>>
>> Our further work is more nuanced since we work with(in) the regulators and
>> with industry, where Telefonica of Spain leads the anti-Neutrality push, and
>> have agreed to NOT legisltate and NOT regulate, but watch the evolution of the
>> issues in the field. We have cited the examples of the UK's OFCOM and France's
>> ARCEP for a similar approach: signal the issue, underline its importance,
>> watch, be ready to signal major breakdowns (like the ones you have in Ghana
>> and the Gambia in these reports.)
>>
>> One more caveat, the situations are a bit different: operators will always
>> claim that in mobile Internet access they have to impose more restrictions
>> because of spectrum scarcity and that video etc. exhaust the available
>> resources. That argument is partly true, partly a matter of money invested
>> into network infrastructure and wise operational practice.
>>
>> I think that using Alex Blom's offer will help a lot because I think you will
>> find a lot more inappropriate restrictions than just Skype or VoIP.
>>
>> One last point: beware of being seen as taking sides with one industry or
>> company against the other (esp. now that Skype is owned by Microsoft); stick
>> to principles.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICOSMS +525541444475
>> Blog:http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter:http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico,http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Desde:*chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>> <mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>[chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org]
>> en nombre de GABRIEL LATJOR NDOW [md at gambian.com]
>> *Enviado el:*lunes, 27 de mayo de 2013 12:02
>> *Hasta:*Chapter Delegates
>> *Asunto:*Re: [Chapter-delegates] Shutdown of Skype on our Mobile Broadband
>> Internet Access
>>
>> Hi,
>> We in The Gambia are also experiencing issues surrounding Skype, Voip,...  A
>> few weeks ago, the regulator abruptly announced a banning of skype and other
>> voip services in cyber cafes (where many Gambians access the internet) which
>> was quickly followed by a strong endorsement by the government following a
>> major public outcry.  The regulator has since drafted a regulation to enforce
>> their initial pronouncement.  This is quite problematic and we believe both
>> the regulator and the government need to be better educated on this matter.
>> There is a strong telecom bias in both agencies. There are major governance
>> issues in this country and the internet environment here is quite challenging.
>>
>> Gabriel
>> ISOC Gambia
>>
>> On May 27, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Alexander Blom wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Edwin,
>>>
>>> Together with the Bangla Desh chapter, we developed a smartphone app which
>>> can test whether your local isp blocks applications like skype. This works
>>> very well if you want to get statistics on the different isp's, we have run
>>> around 10,000 tests with it already  Please check our
>>> websitehttp://open.internet.nl(it has English) or download the app (English
>>> spoken) from Google Play store "Open Internet NL" Despite the NL for
>>> Netherlands we can capture the results of your local test right away and send
>>> them to you. So try it out and let me know if I can be of further help.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Alex Blom
>>> Treasurer ISOC Netherlands
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/27/2013 11:18 AM, Edwin A. Opare wrote:
>>>> I think this a clear Net Neutrality issue. Eric like you rightly said, I
>>>> also think we should tackle the issue from the Regulator level with evidence
>>>> to back our position and ISOC Ghana should lead the charge in this endeavor.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> EAO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Evelyn A. Lewis<elewis at sbtsgroup.com
>>>> <mailto:elewis at sbtsgroup.com>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     HI Eric,
>>>>
>>>>     Not the same experience as you in Ghana in Sierra Leone, but noted that
>>>>     it is supposed to be illegal if the Gateway is considered a monopoly or
>>>>     legal if liberalized.  I think the key thing is in the commercial usage
>>>>     of skype in voice.
>>>>
>>>>     Much as they try to regulate this, I think  those states banning VOIP
>>>>     are fighting a losing battle unless they want to become police states.
>>>>
>>>>     VOIP as an application has so many routes.
>>>>
>>>>     It’s  inevitable that voice traffic gradually has to begin to accept its
>>>>     permanent state as billing under a converged service plan and figuring
>>>>     in ARPU as such.
>>>>
>>>>     I think ISOC has a role to play here in educating regulators.
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>     Evelyn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     *From:*chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>>>>     <mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>>>>     <mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>]*On Behalf Of*Eric
>>>>     Akumiah
>>>>     *Sent:*Monday, May 27, 2013 3:45 AM
>>>>     *To:*ISOC Chapter Delegates
>>>>     *Subject:*[Chapter-delegates] Shutdown of Skype on our Mobile Broadband
>>>>     Internet Access
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     We have been experience a shut down of Skype by some of our Mobile
>>>>     Broadband operators and I want to know if any chapter has experience
>>>>     such a thing and what measures were used to address it. We intent
>>>>     complain to the regulator in the Ministry of Communications here in a
>>>>     position paper. We will like some input from any chapter who has had
>>>>     such an experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Kind regards
>>>>
>>>>     Eric
>>>>
>>>>     President,
>>>>
>>>>     Ghana Chapter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________

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