[Chapter-delegates] (no subject)

Carlos A. Afonso ca at cafonso.ca
Wed Feb 1 09:56:06 PST 2012 

No, they are not! I operate a small non-profit service provider for NGOs
since the 90's (actually the first one in BR commercially or otherwise),
and in the past year or two the Barracuda racket keeps bugging us with
temporary blocking because we did not purchase their anti-spam system.
There are some goodwill services and soft vendors, but there are rackets
too.

[]s fraternos

--c.a.

On 02/01/2012 02:53 PM, Zaid Ali wrote:
> I don't believe I said anti-spam vendors are transparent, I said they work
> well from a technology perspective. It's not perfect because it is a
> difficult problem and Bayesian filtering is an ongoing effort. If you look
> from a statistical point of view you will find that at least 85% of email
> coming into an org will be marked as spam. I like to think that overall
> solutions to this kind of problem are a layered approach, you block 85% of
> spam with Bayesian filtering and the ones that get through you have to
> have mail admins and postmasters find innovative ways. I think its
> important to point out that the anti-spam community has a different
> approach to solving the spam problem. RBL's are a great part of this
> community, you mentioned that they are a concrete wall and the days of
> delisting are gone, I want to point out that this statement is
> misinformation and as chapter leaders we need to reach out and work with
> the anti-spam community in general. It works in our favor if we extend and
> educate the open model of the Internet to the anti-spam community, there
> are a few in that community that work with ISOC but most of them don't
> care. ISOC has a trust and identity initiative that is loosely associated
> with anti-spam work but could do more I believe.
> 
> Zaid
> 
> On 2/1/12 6:51 AM, "Alejandro Pisanty" <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
> 
>> Zaid,
>>
>> thanks for the informtion and views. I beg to disagree re transparency of
>> anti-spam providers (not RBLs themselves, a mixed bag with some very
>> good, 
>> others best nuked.)
>>
>> Fully agree on the amount and especially growing insidiousness and
>> sleaziness of spam senders.
>>
>> When I've had to select, install, and configure antispam (for a community
>> of about 500,000 users) one of the hardest choices to make was how to
>> calibrate and avoid false positives.
>>
>> Once you find your email address in the false-positives basket it can be
>> a 
>> nightmare to get it - or the IP addresses of your provider - to be
>> cleared. It's hard work and not all admins go out and do it.
>>
>> Agreed re MAAWG whos good work has been shown in this list by Franck over
>> the years.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Zaid Ali wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:37:17 -0600
>>> From: Zaid Ali <zaid at sfbayisoc.org>
>>> To: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan at unam.mx>,
>>>     Fred Baker <fred at cisco.com>, Christian de Larrinaga
>>> <cdel at firsthand.net>
>>> Cc: Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>>
>>> Alejandro, RBL's work pretty well and I still use it today. I can
>>> assure you
>>> they are not a concrete wall. It is still managed by the Internet
>>> community
>>> in general, the problem is that Spam is a growing problem everyday. The
>>> dynamics of spam has also changed, you can buy a Bot-Net in the market
>>> to
>>> send unsolicited emails via millions of compromised computers. If you
>>> follow
>>> the Mariposa Bot-Net story it is quite interesting. I have personally
>>> evaluated a number of Anti-Spam clients (network appliances) and I can
>>> tell
>>> you that they do work pretty well, there is just a lot of crud out
>>> there and
>>> its growing everyday.
>>>
>>> If you are looking for ISP best practice I suggest you go visit MAAWG
>>> www.maawg.org, they have done some really good work bringing the mail
>>> provider and sender community together. I used to be a regular in this
>>> community but I have other obligations now. You will find Franck Martin
>>> there since he is more heavily involved with MAAWG.
>>>
>>> ISOC should form alliance with MAAWG.
>>>
>>> Zaid
>>>
>>> From:  "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan at unam.mx>
>>> Date:  Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:50:20 +0000
>>> To:  Fred Baker <fred at cisco.com>, Christian de Larrinaga
>>> <cdel at firsthand.net>
>>> Cc:  Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>> Subject:  Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>>
>>> thanks for the comment on Yahoo! non-response to some types of abuse.
>>>
>>> The use of Yahoo-groups as well as Google groups for spam is quite
>>> amazing
>>> and particularly insidious. They are well crafted to be hard to fight.
>>>
>>> Equally complicated to deal with is the situation our colleague
>>> Maheeshwara
>>> Kirindigoda from ISOC Sri Lanka describes.
>>>
>>> I'd like to add one set of horrible cases: anti-spam. Antispam
>>> providers can
>>> be as bad as spammers in some senses. Their offerings are designed to
>>> please
>>> their clients, and have become harder and harder to reach for those of
>>> us
>>> who find our email blocked by them as false positives (i.e. non-spam,
>>> not
>>> even for the chapters mailing lists which are a common problem, but for
>>> individual emails.) Gone are the days of the open RBLs where you could
>>> check
>>> if your servers were blacklisted and clear their names somehow. They
>>> are now
>>> a concrete wall.
>>>
>>> Anyways... not mouch new, esp. for ISOC. We have to continue to act in a
>>> complex world in which a global infrastructure is owned and operated
>>> largely
>>> by private companies who in turn are driven by profit and their
>>> owners/shareholders and subject to national laws and policies.
>>>
>>> Many of the ways to keep them away from extreme evil are regulation and
>>> self-regulation. Best practices, alignment of incentives, and citizen
>>> and
>>> consumer pressure are the most we usually have.
>>>
>>> And that's where we ISOC chapters, with all our members, can
>>> contribute. So,
>>> if someone can share a code of ISP best practice with Maheeshwara, for
>>> example, we will be helping a lot with our limited resources.
>>>
>>> To your point, Maheeshwara, may I mention that an ISOC Mexico member,
>>> Leon
>>> Felipe Sanchez (who is in this list and will be our delegate for the
>>> INET)
>>> has crafted a law initiative on the rights of Internet users. There is
>>> some
>>> debate about the approach, but it has been adopted as his own by a
>>> prominent
>>> and very Internet savvy and friendly Senator. Maybe Leon Felipe can
>>> tell you
>>> more about it and whether it applies to your case.
>>>
>>> IF, big IF, that case is not just a commercial matter, of course.
>>>
>>> The name-and-shame approach you propose, Maheeshwara, looks to me hard
>>> to
>>> scale globally but something one can try locally. A chapter that goes
>>> this
>>> way must be careful not to engage powerful enemies in a battle that
>>> cannot
>>> be won, particularly if you start from shaky grounds (an example would
>>> be
>>> that the provider can say or even prove you have not made your payments
>>> in
>>> time, or otherwise fail to have strong grounds for your complaint.)
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .  .  .  .
>>> .  .
>>>     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>>
>>> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>>>
>>> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>> *Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>> Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org
>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>> .  .
>>>
>>> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>>> [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Fred Baker
>>> [fred at cisco.com]
>>> Enviado el: domingo, 29 de enero de 2012 20:11
>>> Hasta: Christian de Larrinaga
>>> CC: Chapter Delegates
>>> Asunto: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 2:21 AM, Christian de Larrinaga wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've seen an increase in the number of hacked yahoo accounts spamming
>>>> to their
>>>> address books recently. I've found the best response is to write to the
>>>> account holder using another email address if you have one to check.
>>>> Where
>>>> that person is not able to take the matter up with Yahoo directly.
>>>>
>>>> There is a form hidden away in the Yahoo site you can report abuse
>>>> problems.
>>>> They have responded positively within a few days in all cases I've been
>>>> involved with.
>>>
>>> I have yet to get a response of any kind from yahoo on any abuse
>>> problems. I
>>> periodically get told that someone has added me to a yahoo alias,
>>> clearly
>>> for the purpose of spam delivery. I reply negatively, and as yahoo
>>> suggests,
>>> report the abuse. Since I don't have a yahoo address, there are some
>>> parts
>>> of the abuse that don't work, but per the web site even with a non-yahoo
>>> address I should be able to direct them to not add me to any alias - and
>>> that's not working.
>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Jan 2012, at 08:01, Rudi Vansnick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Indeed Charles is member of the ISOC Liberia board. I know him very
>>>>> well. His
>>>>> Yahoo account is most probably hacked ... I've received other
>>>>> spammails from
>>>>> his emailaccount. I will inform him .
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rudi Vansnick
>>>>> ‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹ Internet Society Belgium  ‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹
>>>>> President - CEO                      Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
>>>>> rudi.vansnick at isoc.be            Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
>>>>> Dendermondesteenweg 143        B-9070 Destelbergen  BELGIUM
>>>>> www.internetsociety.be <http://www.internetsociety.be/>        "The
>>>>> Internet
>>>>> is for everyone"
>>>>> ‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹
>>>>>
>>>>> Op 29-jan-2012, om 01:52 heeft Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch het
>>>>> volgende
>>>>> geschreven:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eduardo,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles is real. The email in question is presumably not
>>>>>> deliberately from
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a reminder to keep a watchful eye open!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And we have to help Charles make sure it's not a bad sign which may
>>>>>> lead to
>>>>>> blocking his email until his computer is cleared of malware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .  .  .
>>>>>> .  .  .
>>>>>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>>>>> <http://pisanty.blogspot.com/>
>>>>>> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>>>>> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>>>>> *Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>>>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>>>>> <http://www.isoc.org/>
>>>>>>  Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org/>
>>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>>> .  .  .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Eduardo Diaz
>>>>>> [eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com]
>>>>>> Enviado el: s¨¢bado, 28 de enero de 2012 17:32
>>>>>> Hasta: Chapter Delegates
>>>>>> Asunto: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is Charles Gaye for real? Can someone check please!!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> SPAM!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:35 PM, charles Gaye
>>>>>>> <charlesg1075 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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