[Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
Zaid Ali
zaid at sfbayisoc.org
Wed Feb 1 08:53:21 PST 2012
I don't believe I said anti-spam vendors are transparent, I said they work
well from a technology perspective. It's not perfect because it is a
difficult problem and Bayesian filtering is an ongoing effort. If you look
from a statistical point of view you will find that at least 85% of email
coming into an org will be marked as spam. I like to think that overall
solutions to this kind of problem are a layered approach, you block 85% of
spam with Bayesian filtering and the ones that get through you have to
have mail admins and postmasters find innovative ways. I think its
important to point out that the anti-spam community has a different
approach to solving the spam problem. RBL's are a great part of this
community, you mentioned that they are a concrete wall and the days of
delisting are gone, I want to point out that this statement is
misinformation and as chapter leaders we need to reach out and work with
the anti-spam community in general. It works in our favor if we extend and
educate the open model of the Internet to the anti-spam community, there
are a few in that community that work with ISOC but most of them don't
care. ISOC has a trust and identity initiative that is loosely associated
with anti-spam work but could do more I believe.
Zaid
On 2/1/12 6:51 AM, "Alejandro Pisanty" <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>Zaid,
>
>thanks for the informtion and views. I beg to disagree re transparency of
>anti-spam providers (not RBLs themselves, a mixed bag with some very
>good,
>others best nuked.)
>
>Fully agree on the amount and especially growing insidiousness and
>sleaziness of spam senders.
>
>When I've had to select, install, and configure antispam (for a community
>of about 500,000 users) one of the hardest choices to make was how to
>calibrate and avoid false positives.
>
>Once you find your email address in the false-positives basket it can be
>a
>nightmare to get it - or the IP addresses of your provider - to be
>cleared. It's hard work and not all admins go out and do it.
>
>Agreed re MAAWG whos good work has been shown in this list by Franck over
>the years.
>
>Yours,
>
>Alejandro Pisanty
>
>On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Zaid Ali wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:37:17 -0600
>> From: Zaid Ali <zaid at sfbayisoc.org>
>> To: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan at unam.mx>,
>> Fred Baker <fred at cisco.com>, Christian de Larrinaga
>><cdel at firsthand.net>
>> Cc: Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>
>> Alejandro, RBL's work pretty well and I still use it today. I can
>>assure you
>> they are not a concrete wall. It is still managed by the Internet
>>community
>> in general, the problem is that Spam is a growing problem everyday. The
>> dynamics of spam has also changed, you can buy a Bot-Net in the market
>>to
>> send unsolicited emails via millions of compromised computers. If you
>>follow
>> the Mariposa Bot-Net story it is quite interesting. I have personally
>> evaluated a number of Anti-Spam clients (network appliances) and I can
>>tell
>> you that they do work pretty well, there is just a lot of crud out
>>there and
>> its growing everyday.
>>
>> If you are looking for ISP best practice I suggest you go visit MAAWG
>> www.maawg.org, they have done some really good work bringing the mail
>> provider and sender community together. I used to be a regular in this
>> community but I have other obligations now. You will find Franck Martin
>> there since he is more heavily involved with MAAWG.
>>
>> ISOC should form alliance with MAAWG.
>>
>> Zaid
>>
>> From: "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan at unam.mx>
>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:50:20 +0000
>> To: Fred Baker <fred at cisco.com>, Christian de Larrinaga
>> <cdel at firsthand.net>
>> Cc: Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>
>> Fred,
>>
>> thanks for the comment on Yahoo! non-response to some types of abuse.
>>
>> The use of Yahoo-groups as well as Google groups for spam is quite
>>amazing
>> and particularly insidious. They are well crafted to be hard to fight.
>>
>> Equally complicated to deal with is the situation our colleague
>>Maheeshwara
>> Kirindigoda from ISOC Sri Lanka describes.
>>
>> I'd like to add one set of horrible cases: anti-spam. Antispam
>>providers can
>> be as bad as spammers in some senses. Their offerings are designed to
>>please
>> their clients, and have become harder and harder to reach for those of
>>us
>> who find our email blocked by them as false positives (i.e. non-spam,
>>not
>> even for the chapters mailing lists which are a common problem, but for
>> individual emails.) Gone are the days of the open RBLs where you could
>>check
>> if your servers were blacklisted and clear their names somehow. They
>>are now
>> a concrete wall.
>>
>> Anyways... not mouch new, esp. for ISOC. We have to continue to act in a
>> complex world in which a global infrastructure is owned and operated
>>largely
>> by private companies who in turn are driven by profit and their
>> owners/shareholders and subject to national laws and policies.
>>
>> Many of the ways to keep them away from extreme evil are regulation and
>> self-regulation. Best practices, alignment of incentives, and citizen
>>and
>> consumer pressure are the most we usually have.
>>
>> And that's where we ISOC chapters, with all our members, can
>>contribute. So,
>> if someone can share a code of ISP best practice with Maheeshwara, for
>> example, we will be helping a lot with our limited resources.
>>
>> To your point, Maheeshwara, may I mention that an ISOC Mexico member,
>>Leon
>> Felipe Sanchez (who is in this list and will be our delegate for the
>>INET)
>> has crafted a law initiative on the rights of Internet users. There is
>>some
>> debate about the approach, but it has been adopted as his own by a
>>prominent
>> and very Internet savvy and friendly Senator. Maybe Leon Felipe can
>>tell you
>> more about it and whether it applies to your case.
>>
>> IF, big IF, that case is not just a commercial matter, of course.
>>
>> The name-and-shame approach you propose, Maheeshwara, looks to me hard
>>to
>> scale globally but something one can try locally. A chapter that goes
>>this
>> way must be careful not to engage powerful enemies in a battle that
>>cannot
>> be won, particularly if you start from shaky grounds (an example would
>>be
>> that the provider can say or even prove you have not made your payments
>>in
>> time, or otherwise fail to have strong grounds for your complaint.)
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>. .
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>>
>> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> *Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>. .
>>
>> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>> [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Fred Baker
>> [fred at cisco.com]
>> Enviado el: domingo, 29 de enero de 2012 20:11
>> Hasta: Christian de Larrinaga
>> CC: Chapter Delegates
>> Asunto: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2012, at 2:21 AM, Christian de Larrinaga wrote:
>>
>>> I've seen an increase in the number of hacked yahoo accounts spamming
>>>to their
>>> address books recently. I've found the best response is to write to the
>>> account holder using another email address if you have one to check.
>>>Where
>>> that person is not able to take the matter up with Yahoo directly.
>>>
>>> There is a form hidden away in the Yahoo site you can report abuse
>>>problems.
>>> They have responded positively within a few days in all cases I've been
>>> involved with.
>>
>> I have yet to get a response of any kind from yahoo on any abuse
>>problems. I
>> periodically get told that someone has added me to a yahoo alias,
>>clearly
>> for the purpose of spam delivery. I reply negatively, and as yahoo
>>suggests,
>> report the abuse. Since I don't have a yahoo address, there are some
>>parts
>> of the abuse that don't work, but per the web site even with a non-yahoo
>> address I should be able to direct them to not add me to any alias - and
>> that's not working.
>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> On 29 Jan 2012, at 08:01, Rudi Vansnick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Indeed Charles is member of the ISOC Liberia board. I know him very
>>>>well. His
>>>> Yahoo account is most probably hacked ... I've received other
>>>>spammails from
>>>> his emailaccount. I will inform him .
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Rudi Vansnick
>>>> ‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹ Internet Society Belgium ‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹
>>>> President - CEO Tel +32/(0)9/329.39.16
>>>> rudi.vansnick at isoc.be Mobile +32/(0)475/28.16.32
>>>> Dendermondesteenweg 143 B-9070 Destelbergen BELGIUM
>>>> www.internetsociety.be <http://www.internetsociety.be/> "The
>>>>Internet
>>>> is for everyone"
>>>> ‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹‹
>>>>
>>>> Op 29-jan-2012, om 01:52 heeft Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch het
>>>>volgende
>>>> geschreven:
>>>>
>>>>> Eduardo,
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles is real. The email in question is presumably not
>>>>>deliberately from
>>>>> him.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a reminder to keep a watchful eye open!!
>>>>>
>>>>> And we have to help Charles make sure it's not a bad sign which may
>>>>>lead to
>>>>> blocking his email until his computer is cleared of malware.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>>
>>>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>>>. . .
>>>>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>>>>
>>>>> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>>>>>
>>>>> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>>>><http://pisanty.blogspot.com/>
>>>>> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>>>> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>>>> *Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>>>><http://www.isoc.org/>
>>>>> Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org <http://www.icann.org/>
>>>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>>>. . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de Eduardo Diaz
>>>>> [eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com]
>>>>> Enviado el: s¨¢bado, 28 de enero de 2012 17:32
>>>>> Hasta: Chapter Delegates
>>>>> Asunto: Re: [Chapter-delegates] (no subject)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Charles Gaye for real? Can someone check please!!?
>>>>>
>>>>> -ed
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Joly MacFie <joly at punkcast.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> SPAM!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:35 PM, charles Gaye
>>>>>><charlesg1075 at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>
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>>
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