[Chapter-delegates] Sad news from ISOC Poland

Fri Nov 25 12:08:08 PST 2011

Hi Klaus,

The same points were made eloquently by Eben Moglen at the ISOC-NY Feb 2010
"Freedom in the Cloud"event http://isoc-ny.org/?p=1338 . He pointed out
that we do not need a monolithic "spying" interlocutor to share status
updates, photos, identity, etc and called on the Internet community to
create a distributed method of doing so. The response, eventually, has been
the diaspora - http://diasporafoundation.org/ - and freedom box
http://freedomboxfoundation.org/ initiatives. Both, while valuable and,
hopefully, ultimately successful, have some distance to go before having
the kind of functionality that will give them "killer" status.

There have been interesting conversations on the topic at recent INET's -
at INET NY Eben Moglen himself was present on a "people" panel
http://livestre.am/OYvP  (start at 3.30), and at INET Philadelphia David
Solomonoff was swiftly rebuffed by Parry Aftab when he raised FB privacy
concerns http://livestre.am/146m3 (start at 30.45). Parry ultimately
suggests that vigilance by users is the solution, and, adoption or not is
still a collective choice. I think it is quite possible that a p2p based
replacement could knock FB down several pegs. What's interesting about FB
is that, given Zuckerberg in particular with his philosophy of "Move Fast,
Break Things", they may get there first!

We have long heard Stallman put the position that every time we use any
proprietary tool we are, for short term advantage,  selling out the future
of mankind - but I don't think it can be denied that the short term
advantage of social networking has been a massive boon to a great number of
people - hence its popularity. I think it borders on hypocrisy for a
Society that professes "The Internet is for Everyone" to get antsy when
everyone doesn't use it in the way they'd like. But, as Parry points out,
vigilance is needed and there is choice. In this respect, the Internet
Society obviously has an important role to play. It's not necessarily
enhanced by ostrich-like behavior, but emphasis on open internetworking,
and the end-to-end principle are important if alternatives are to have the
opportunity to flourish.

j

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 8:08 AM, Klaus Birkenbihl
<Klaus.Birkenbihl at isoc.de>wrote:

> OK guys, call me a paranoid if you like. Here is my take on it.
>
> Tommy said that there are quite some core values that are threatened by
> FB. I definitely agree. I even think FB harms the Internet because their
> business model threatens:
>
>  privacy: Data protection commissioners in EU but also in the rest of
>   the world find every week a new reason to admonish or sue FB
>
>  networking: it is more or less the vision of FB to make the Internet
>   a star shaped network. What ever data you have: give it to *us*
>   whoever you want to reach, reach her with *us*, what ever you do
>   let *us* know, whoever you know, let us know too. If you like
>   something tell *us*, your artwork, give it to *us*, your creativity,
>   your skills use them with *us*! (did I hear anybody say 1984?)
>   You cannot escape anyhow! Since, if you don't feed *us* with all
>   this stuff - your friends will truly do it for you.
>   Everything will be with *us*. Everything will be provided by *us*.
>   Every communication runs through *us*. Nothing goes without
>   *us*. No other service within the web is as grabby as *us*!
>
> Btw as soon as FB has finally succeeded we don't need an Internet anymore.
> Because everybody is connected to FB and every communication can run
> through it. FB Apps will replace Web browsers (maybe having Web access as
> a an option).
>
> This is only partly an educational issue. It is more a policy issue
> as there is a need to
>
>  - stop monopolization of the Internet
>  - enforce privacy laws
>  - take means to foster pluralism
>  - maintain true networking and keep it neutral
>
> Admitted we saw monopolies in IT before. Telecom operators, IBM,
> Microsoft, Google(?), ... So maybe FB is just an episode. Nevertheless
> some care might be appropriate and a good message can help to
> make it an episode.
>
> There might be rationals and advantages that give people a reason to
> carefully use FB. But as far as ISOC is concerned: using facebook
> to promote ISOC's business will spoil the credibility of the message.
>
> Or don't we have the presumed message that we are against the way FB
> (ab)uses the Internet? IMHO it would be good we had. Despite - or
> rather because - FB was accepted as an executive ISOC member.
>
> Paranoid regards,
> Klaus
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Vande Walle wrote on 2011-11-18 11:12:
> > On 18/11/11 07:57, Tommi Karttaavi wrote:
> >> On 18.11.2011 1:36, Fred Baker wrote:
> >>> I like the FB page. I "liked" it, too. Queuestion. What's the "sad"
> >>> news?
> >>
> >> I suspect Marcin might be referring to what I said at the European
> >> Chapters Workshop last week about why ISOC Finland doesn't have a FB
> >> page. There may or may not have been foam coming out of my mouth :)
> >>
> >
> > Tommi,
> >
> > For the benefit of those who were not at the Bucharest meeting, would
> > you be willing to share what you said about why ISOC Finland doesn't
> > have a FB page ?
> >
> > FWIW, ISOC Luxembourg does have a FB page at  http://facebook.isoc.lu
> > (redirects to https://www.facebook.com/Internet.Society.Luxembourg )
> > You are welcome to "Like" it :-)
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chapter-delegates mailing list
> > Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
> >
>
> --
> Klaus Birkenbihl
> Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE)
> http://www.isoc.de/
> _______________________________________________
> Chapter-delegates mailing list
> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>

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