[Chapter-delegates] Wikileaks/USG strong arm continued..

[Eric Burger]

No - it is very much not OK to mess with the infrastructure of the Internet, nor is it OK to intimidate service providers into disrupting the Internet. I do not condone such action, and it is my hope that ISOC would shine a light on that sort of behavior.

However, it is not at all clear that either of those things mentioned below happened in this case. Again, if either of those things have happened, then one could expect strong statements and action from the Internet Society.

As of now, it is not even clear there has been any take down at all. What will be interesting will be the forensic analysis of the DDoS attack that precipitated the situation in the first place. If that can get traced to a government, any government, then we have a case. Until that time, what we have is a service provider (in this case, a hosted DNS provider) doing what we pay network providers to do, namely keep their network operating.

What I was trying to elucidate was not whether the USG got embarrassed. The USG does a good job of that on its own, with or without the Internet. ["To Err is Human; To Really Foul Up Requires a Computer."] However, what I am trying to bring out is would people feel the same way about this situation if the roles were reversed? For many, I think not.

Like you say, the Internet is for Everyone, not just the people we like. My model for this is the US ACLU case in support of the right of Nazi's in Skokie, Illinois to march. The ACLU had to decide if the right of free speech was worth defending, even if the message was beyond hateful. See 5.2 1960–2000 for a synopsis of the case.

Note too that I am speaking as an individual chapter member (DC). I am not speaking on behalf of or as a Trustee of ISOC.

On Dec 5, 2010, at 3:25 PM, Zaid Ali wrote:

> 
> On 12/5/10 4:07 AM, "Eric Burger" <eburger at standardstrack.com> wrote:
> 
>> Let's look at it if the situation was turned around: someone visits the U.S.,
>> which means you cross an international border. At an international border, the
>> U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement can legally seize your laptop and
>> hold it for a week to let the NSA decrypt whatever is on it. [I am not saying
>> this is good or right, but it is the law of the land.] Then, someone with
>> access to your decrypted laptop illegally posts everything on your laptop with
>> the express purpose of embarrassing you.
>> 
>> Are you saying that is OK? Rule of law is only for little guy fighting big
>> government? The rule of law is not for big government fighting little guy?
>> 
> 
> This situation would be embarrassing for the US government wouldn't it? They
> seized my laptop (probably arrested me) and couldn't keep the evidence
> secure. The posting would help me since it would be evidence that the USG
> can't secure evidence and flies in the face of due process. From a legal
> standpoint this would really look bad since evidence got tampered with and
> shows that the USG can't execute the law properly and if I wasn't a US
> citizen I would get international lawyers involved before the ride to
> Guantanamo.
> 
> Are you condoning these politicians in saying that it is OK to disrupt
> technical infrastructure? I am confused since I thought we belong to
> Internet Society where the Internet is for everyone. I think that Internet
> freedom is under attack here but perhaps I am the only one having that
> internal existential feeling.
> 
> Zaid
> 
> 
>> On Dec 4, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Zaid Ali wrote:
>> 
>>> I think we will be seeing more rhetoric like this. Question is if this is
>>> just rhetoric or will we see government officials wanting to disrupt
>>> technical infrastructure?
>>> 
>>> http://www.facebook.com/sarahpalin?ref=ts#!/note.php?note_id=465212788434
>>> 
>>> "What if any diplomatic pressure was brought to bear on NATO, EU, and other
>>> allies to disrupt Wikileaks’ technical infrastructure? Did we use all the
>>> cyber tools at our disposal to permanently dismantle Wikileaks?" -Palin
>>> 
>>> Zaid
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>> 
> 
> 

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