[Chapter-delegates] Bulgaria moves to register Cyrillic Internet domain
Alejandro Pisanty
apisan at servidor.unam.mx
Tue Jun 24 10:59:12 PDT 2008
S.,
going carefully through Marcin's suggestion, i.e. to read how the system
actually works, may be useful. What the system does at present is to map
non-ascii names into an - as much as possible - unambiguous ascii string.
It is a fairly complex system and will probably show that your intuition
is right, and to do more would essentially repeat a huuuuuge pile of work
already done.
Alejandro Pisanty
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
*Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
*LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
*Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:18:39 +0530
> From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>
> To: Alejandro Pisanty <apisan at servidor.unam.mx>
> Cc: Gene Gaines <gene.gaines at gainesgroup.com>,
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bulgaria moves to register Cyrillic Internet
> domain
>
> Hello Alejandro
>
> Yes, the present system of alphabetic names is created so that people
> don't have to remember digits.
>
> In my suggestion of a digitized name as a "machine level" layer of
> indirection, the suggestion is not exactly that the internet user has
> to remember the digitized name.
>
> English- Coca-cola.com. ON ALLOCATION of the name coca-cola.com, at
> the same instant becomes owner of the digitzed name ( this could also
> be alpha numeric, not necessarily just digits - such as
> USAEnglishCommerce32594892 or as 2bbfcdf3f09ae8d700402f36913515cd
>
> If there are a thousand languages, ICANN simultaneously reserves the
> the local strings auto-generated by a machine level reverse-look up.
>
> By this theory2bbfcdf3f09ae8d700402f36913515cd should auto-generate a
> <cyrillic> string, a <Hindi> string, a <spanish> string and 997 other
> strings.
>
> The technical feasibility of this needs to be explored.
>
> 1. Coca-cola is a 9 letter string. Would a reverse-look up of
> 2bbfcdf3f09ae8d700402f36913515cd generate a 9 lettered spanish name or
> is there a possibility that it becomes a 19 lettered word in the
> process ?
>
> 2. The name so generated would be easy to type, but is likely to be a
> a string of meaningless characters. This would again be hard to
> remember.
>
> 3. So, yet another layer of local indirection may be needed similar to
> a RealNames service in each country that the Coca Cola corporation
> would go to to obtain the local language string that rhymes with
> Coca-cola which the user will remember and type that gets looked up as
> the earlier local string of meaningless characters which gets looked
> up as the digitized name in the central DNS system which gets looked
> up as coca-cola.com
>
> Very round about. I am typing as I think and really do not see how it
> is an improvement over Coca Cola corporation having to go to the local
> registry to obtain the best available .bg name
>
> Without Step 3, the typing problem is somewhat solved, but not the
> problem related to the recallability of the name. But Step 3 seems to
> bring us back to Square 1.
>
> If what I have written is 40% sense and 60% nonsense, please do reason
> this out and see if more sense can be made out of this
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:27 PM, Alejandro Pisanty
> <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>> Sivasubramanian,
>>
>> let me see if I understand well:
>>
>> the present layers are:
>>
>> domain name read as alphabetic characters by the user
>> domain name represented in bits and bytes
>> IP address.
>>
>>
>> The DNS was created so that people would not have to remember the numbers in
>> the IP address.
>>
>> Now you would add a numbered list of TLDs so that is an additional layer of
>> indirection (of course creating a new layer of indirection, a new
>> abstraction, is common practice in computing.)
>>
>> But... let's see, thehr will in the long run be at least a couple hundred
>> numbers of TLDs - you'd have that even if we only did ccTLDs in ASCII, as
>> presently, plus their representations in the characters of one native
>> language that uses non-ASCII characters. So, in chronological order, maybe
>> <bg-in-Cyrillic> would be number 1, and later on maybe India in TAmil would
>> be no. 431 (just an example!).
>>
>> Who would be able to remember this list? Someone would come up with the hame
>> in-tam for India in Tamil, and we now would have added two layers of
>> indirection that would requiere intensive maintenance.
>>
>> Do we want to go there, or is there an alternative, or did I not understand
>> you well?
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
>> Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:05:32 +0530
>>> From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>
>>> To: Alejandro Pisanty <apisan at servidor.unam.mx>
>>> Cc: Gene Gaines <gene.gaines at gainesgroup.com>,
>>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bulgaria moves to register Cyrillic
>>> Internet
>>> domain
>>>
>>> Hello Alejandro Pisantry,
>>>
>>> This is a very valid question. Localization is important, but in the
>>> process of localization if the localized zone becomes inaccessible
>>> internationally the effect would be contrary to that intended.
>>>
>>> May be the technical community should think of a domain name
>>> architecture whereby there is a digitized domain name system - the
>>> digitized 'name' is functional at the DNS level. It is the
>>> digitization of a local name visible to the locals as the local
>>> language name, but gets converted into any other language for the
>>> convenience of those from the rest of the world
>>>
>>> <cyrillc-bg> name - the user in Bulgaria enters a cyrillic name
>>> The DNS system gets the same name translated into digits
>>> The international user knows the digital name
>>> There is a global web interface akin to tinyurl.com that converts the
>>> digital 'name' into any local language, for instance, Spanish
>>> The user in spain types the Spanish characters in the address bar of
>>> his browser. <spanish-bg> name
>>> The DNS system re translates it to the digital name which is looked up
>>> as the <cyrillc-bg> name website.
>>>
>>> A possible solution I wish to know if this is technically sound.
>>>
>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>>> ISOC India Chennai
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Alejandro Pisanty
>>> <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gene,
>>>>
>>>> I certainly join you in congratulating Dessi and the team in Bulgaria.
>>>>
>>>> I think that here in the chapters we have a very sepcial opportunity, as
>>>> a
>>>> community, to test the whole concept that has been advanced now.
>>>>
>>>> In particular I am curious to see what happens the first time that a site
>>>> goes up with a <cyrillc-bg> name and one of us wants to access it without
>>>> a
>>>> Cyrillic keyboard in an Internet cafe somewhere. And "access" may well
>>>> mean
>>>> sending email, as much as it might mean opening a Web site.
>>>>
>>>> Ours is a community that can especially help each other to make progress
>>>> in
>>>> such tests and be of assistance to Dessi an all others with her.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>
>>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>> .
>>>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>>>
>>>> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>>> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>>> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>>>
>>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, www.isoc.org
>>>> Participa en ICANN, www.icann.org
>>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Gene Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:30:25 -0400
>>>>> From: Gene Gaines <gene.gaines at gainesgroup.com>
>>>>> To: Dessi Pefeva <dpefeva at isoc.bg>
>>>>> Cc: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Bulgaria moves to register Cyrillic
>>>>> Intern
>>>>> domain
>>>>>
>>>>> I am very pleased to see SAITC (Bulgarian State Agency for Information
>>>>> Technologies and Communicatoins), with important support from the
>>>>> Bulgarian
>>>>> ISOC chapter, <http://www.daits.government.bg/>take the step of
>>>>> requesting
>>>>> registration of a Cyrillic TLD from ICANN. (below)
>>>>>
>>>>> If "The Internet is for Everyone" then we must provide the means for
>>>>> everyone to communicate using their language and their character set.
>>>>>
>>>>> Congratulation ISOC.bg
>>>>>
>>>>> Gene Gaines
>>>>> VP, DCISOC (Washington DC Area Chapter of ISOC)
>>>>> *
>>>>> *On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Dessi Pefeva <dpefeva at isoc.bg> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am happy to announce that the Bulgarian government has shown
>>>>>> officially
>>>>>> its intent to register the .бг (.bg in Cyrillic) domain. They did it in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> letter, sent yesterday to ICANN's President Paul Twomey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is due also thanks to the efforts of ISOC-Bulgaria. Bulgarian
>>>>>> President, Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, and the Minister of ITC
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> members of ISOC. They have talked on a number of times in the past six
>>>>>> months with ISOC.bg on these issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously the conversations have been fruitful. See more information
>>>>>> here:
>>>>>> http://uk.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUKL2360195920080623
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And this is the official press-release from the ITC Agency:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bulgaria has requested the registration of a Cyrillic top level domain
>>>>>> (TLD) from *ICANN* <http://www.icann.org/>. The letter from the
>>>>>> chairman
>>>>>> of the Bulgarian State Agency for Information Technologies and
>>>>>> Communicatoins (*SAITC* <http://www.daits.government.bg/>) Plamen
>>>>>> Vatchkov
>>>>>> to the president of ICANN Paul Twomey was delivered today, June 23rd,
>>>>>> 2008, in Paris via the Bulgarian representative to the Governmental
>>>>>> Advisory
>>>>>> Committee of ICANN, and was distributed for information only in Geneva
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> the ITU is headquartered. Thus Bulgaria requested the fast track for
>>>>>> implementation of its own Cyrillic IDNs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the letter to the ICANN President, the SAITC chairman informs the
>>>>>> authoritative international organization, dealing with assigned names
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> numbers, that Bulgaria has decided to register and maintain the country
>>>>>> code
>>>>>> .бг (bg in Cyrillic)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further in the letter, SAITC chairman informs that the discussion on
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> Cyrillic domain names was initiated by the President of Bulgaria Georgi
>>>>>> Parvanov during the visit of the Russian President Putin and the then
>>>>>> vice-prime minister, and now President of Russia Dmitry Medvedev during
>>>>>> their visit in January 2008 in Sofia. The question was also discussed
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> meetings of Bulgarian Prime Minister Sergei Stanishev with the Russian
>>>>>> counterparts, as well as during talks between foreign ministers Ivailo
>>>>>> Kalfin and Sergei Lavrov. Last week, Russian President Medvedev
>>>>>> announced
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> Moscow, that the issue of Cyrillic domain names is an important one,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> his political agenda.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> „We believe that the initiative, which we discussed with our Russian
>>>>>> friends in the last months, is a clear fact about the importance which
>>>>>> Bulgaria has in the world Internet. It is an example not only about the
>>>>>> historical meaning of the Cyrillic alphabet in the world arena, but
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> about the fact that through Bulgaria it became an official alphabet of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> European Union. By sending this letter to Dr. Twomey – ICANN's
>>>>>> president
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> my friend, SAITC expresses not only the wish, but the readiness to put
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Cyrillic IDNs on the Internet map", says Plamen Vatchkov. „There's
>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>> more natural than the proposed domain to be the country code, which is
>>>>>> already known and accepted in the country itself. Creating domains in
>>>>>> scripts, different from the Latin, is the next big step in the
>>>>>> development
>>>>>> of the Internet, which will allow millions of people who don't use
>>>>>> English
>>>>>> to have easier access to the Global Net resources".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SAITC is organizing a meeting later this year in Sofia, where all
>>>>>> countries, using Cyrillic will be invited - Belarus, Bulgaria,
>>>>>> Kazakhstan,
>>>>>> Kyrgyzstan, Macedonia, Mongolia, Russia, Serbia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Ukraine. The meeting will be dedicated to discussion about IDNs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for more information:
>>>>>> Press Center
>>>>>> phone +359-2-9492368
>>>>>> "Ekaterina Popova" <epopova at daits.government.bg>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Ms. Dessi Pefeva,
>>>>>> Internet Society - Bulgaria*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>
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