[Chapter-delegates] ISOC joins panel discussing future ofglobal Internet regulation
Alejandro Pisanty
apisan at servidor.unam.mx
Sat Aug 16 09:47:06 PDT 2008
Mike,
you make a good point.
ICANN is unfortunately the "elephant in the room" in many discussions on
Internet Governance. It is brought in through euphemisms like "management
of Critical Internet Resources" which immediately deviate from what you
and I would call "critical Internet resources" like fiber, stable routing,
stable DNS resolution, etc. etc., to "management of the root" and IP
addressing policy.
Alejandro Pisanty
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
*Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
*LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
*Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Mike Todd wrote:
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:41:00 -0700
> From: Mike Todd <miketodd at miketodd.com>
> To: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>,
> Alejandro Pisanty <apisan at servidor.unam.mx>
> Cc: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC joins panel discussing future ofglobal
> Internet regulation
>
> Siva and Alejandro,
>
> I wonder if anyone has listened to top management folks in the past regarding the fact that ICANN never claimed to be an Internet Governance organization.
>
> After all, their name is Internet Corporation for Assigned NAMES and NUMBERS!
>
> If Jon Postel were still with us, I wonder how well is considered opinion would be received...
>
> Mike Todd
> President, Mike Todd Associates - www.MikeTodd.com
> Supporting the Digital Coast
>
> President, Internet Society Los Angeles Chapter - www.ISOC-LA.org
> mtodd at isoc-la.org
>
> Founder, Digital Divide Task Force, www.ddtf.org (undergoing updates)
> miketodd at ddtf.org
>
> Western Research Application Center, Viterbi School of Engineering,
> University of Southern California
>
> Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology Law
> Pepperdine University School of Law
>
> 714-893-6684 Office
> 310-698-1620 FAX
> 714-222-3700 Cell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
> To: Alejandro Pisanty
> Cc: <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 02:46
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC joins panel discussing future ofglobal Internet regulation
>
>
> Hello Alejandro Pisanty,
>
> Reply at #
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Alejandro Pisanty <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>
> Siva,
>
> IMO there is no single authoritative, relevant, high-quality online forum for this discussion.
>
> There are a number of specialized discussion lists - a large number of examples exists under the ICANN umbrella, for instance, and some of the discussions are well worth reading and even participating.
>
> ICANN's lists are authentic and businesslike but seem to be focussed on names and issues related to names. The issues related to names are merely a fraction of the overall tasks facing Internet Governance. The overall task is monumental and there is so much to be discussed.
>
>
>
> There are a number of online discussions related to the IGF which in my view have proven repeatedly to be problematic in many ways. While considerations of bias and lack of tolerance to diversity of opinions may be subjective, some of these forums have proven objectively and explicitly to have frank and open opposition to membership and access to leadership positions by people related to organizations which ISOC supports (even if critically, but then the critique is open and does not interfere with the support.)
>
> In various mailing lists the magnitude of the task of Governance often goes out of view. This apart, the constitution of the lists are not a balanced, and the groups are not heterogeneous to represent various interests in a balanced manner. Membership in several lists are not large enough to be taken to represent the views of the Internet Community. The discussions are steered in a certain way with little tolerance to views that would bring about a balance.
>
>
> OTOH we do have this delegates list for discussion among a very broad set of viewpoints, and further there is the members' discussion list.
>
> We as chapter delegates should feel the obligation to take many of our discussions to the membership list, as their conclusions are certain to be of interest to a broader community. Further, to the best I can remember, there is specifically a list for policy discussion among ISOC members.
>
> # The chapter delegates list, the General Members list and any specialized lists related to policy are definitely forums that should open topics/ threads related to various issues. However it may not be too appropriate for the ISOC list to discuss issues that are potentially politicized . ISOC has to remain apolitical and neutral.
>
>
>
> So, shoot, start a question either here or there and surely the discussion will not be boring.
>
> Yes I have done that.
>
>
>
> I already notice your question on Google, blogging, and India, so you may yourself have decided that this is indeed a good path to follow.
>
> Thanks, I will start blogging and raise some questions at Linked In and elsewhere. We at ISOC Chennai, as an independant chapter can also think of setting up a moderated public forum at the chapter website to explore if we can get bloggers and students from around India to take part in discussions on Internet Governance..We have some student members with interest in webdesign helping with the chapter website is now online at http://isocindiachennai.in. The idea of a forum is a local project but the forums need not necessarily be closed for participation from general public from outside India. At least this would create some local awareness related to the Internet Governance to be held in India in December and would help a little bit in ensuring diversity of participation.
>
>
>
> Yours,
>
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>
> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>
>
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
>
>
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:04:31 +0530
> From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>
> To: Bill Graham <graham at isoc.org>
> Cc: Alejandro Pisanty <apisan at servidor.unam.mx>,
>
> "<chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>" <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC joins panel discussing future of global
> Internet regulation
>
> Hello BIll Graham
>
> What are the most authentic forums and email lists that bring together
> important members of the Internet Community where policy related to
> Governance issues get influenced / shaped ?
>
> Is there a possibility of ISOC creating a Discussion Group / email list with
> invitations extended to the balanced members of the Internet Community from
> within and outside ISOC ?
>
> Sivsubramanian Muthusamy
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Bill Graham <graham at isoc.org> wrote:
>
>
> Sure, Alejandro, happy to. By the way, Anne has kindly mounted the
> presentation on the Chapters site -- and I now know how to do it
> myself ;-)
>
> Most of this will be covered in the newsletter in greater detail, but
> in general I would say my takeaways were as follows:
>
> -- Audience: US based lawyers are not surprisingly interested in
> things that might affect their practices, largely by offering them new
> lines of work. Their interest was therefore largely to do with things
> that could end up in a court: fraud, phishing, privacy, and protection
> of intellectual property rights. Their questions focused on those
> items, as well as wondering what if any new kinds of judicial or quasi-
> judicial bodies could emerge (such as the Council of Europe convention
> on cybercrime, that has an increasing number of non-European
> signatories -- see <>).
>
> -- Markus Kummer (IGF Secretariat): nothing new here, but Markus
> believes IGF is setting new benchmarks for multistakeholder engagement
> in what would previously have been inter-governmental discussions. I
> think he is right, which is one reason I think we in ISOC need to stay
> engaged with IGF directly, but also with civil society and other
> groups in the Internet community. Chapters will play an increasingly
> important role in this as IGF-model meetings are now expanding at the
> regional, national, and sub-national levels.
>
> -- Paul Twomey (ICANN CEO): concentrated on the introduction of new
> gTLDs, as a development of obvious interest for the legal community.
> Beyond that, his comments focused on the recent ICANN consultation on
> increasing institutional confidence, based on the President's Strategy
> Committee report, and ICANN's preparations for the end of the joint
> project agreement with the US government. He also responded to
> questions about the security weekness in the DNS revealed last week,
> and the importance of DNSSEC.
>
> -- Dick Beaird (US Department of State): restated the United States
> government position on Internet governance, and said that the 30 July
> statement from Meredith Baker did not in any change the long standing
> positions growing out of the original green and white papers of 1998.
> He also talked about the ever-expanding importance of the Internet
> economy, and walked through the outcomes of the OECD Ministerial
> meeting in Seoul last June. You will recall that ISOC served the
> Internet technical community by coordinating 17 organizations in
> preparation of our memorandum to the ministers and of the preparation
> of the 1-day Internet technical community forum.
>
> So -- any new forces? Not really, but I believe the Bar Association
> will be a more prominent participant in future IGF meetings, and we
> can expect to see them offering fact-based workshops. I would not say
> there is anything else that could be seen as reshaping the debate, but
> then an annual conference would not normally be a place for that to
> happen. I believe, however, that it is important for ISOC to take up
> invitations to events like this. We reached a new audience with our
> long-established positions, created awareness of our activities and
> the visibility of ISOC as a player and partner in the Internet
> governance universe. And, as you will see in the presentation, it
> provides an opportunity to educate a new audience about the importance
> of the open, collaborative Internet model, while drawing attention to
> our major strategic initiatives. There was definite interest in the
> Trust and Identity MSI, as well as the others. I hope it may attract
> new org members from the legal community as well.
>
> Best regards
> Bill
> ========================
> Bill Graham
> Global Strategic Engagement
> The Internet Society
> graham at isoc.org
> tel +1.613.231.8543 or
> +1.703.439.2157
>
>
> On 13-Aug-08, at 9:02 PM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
>
>
> Bill,
>
> and, could you tell us in brief narrative what the event was like?
> Are new forces visible that could reshape the debate, is there any
> sign of upcoming progress, regression, or stalling?
>
> I know the question may be too naive or the answer too candid for
> public use ;-). But also I'm sure that many of our chapters could
> use even a very politically correct statement.
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> .
>
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>
> *Mi blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> *LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> *Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>
>
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> Participa en ICANN, http://www.icann.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> .
>
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008, Bill Graham wrote:
>
>
> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:01:17 -0400
> From: Bill Graham <graham at isoc.org>
> To: WWWhatsup <joly at punkcast.com>
> Cc: "<chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>" <
>
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC joins panel discussing future
> of global
> Internet regulation
> Just FYI -- I will get a copy of the presentation on the Chapters
> site
> as soon as I can educate myself as to how it works! I've also
> prepared a story for this month's newsletter.
>
> Bill
>
> On 13-Aug-08, at 2:47 PM, WWWhatsup wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I'm sorry. This escaped my notice. I would've gone and
> videotaped had I known.
>
> joly
>
>
>
> Hello
>
> Can you post the presentations / proceedings of this meeting on the
> internet for us all to read ?
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
> India Chennai
>
>
> The event "The Internet - How It is Governed Today and How it
> May Be
> Governed Tomorrow: A VIP Panel Discusses the Internet Governance
> Forum of
> the United Nations and the Global Debate About the Control and
> Future of the
> Internet" will be held by the American Bar Association (ABA) in
> New York
> City on Saturday 9 August 2008.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> WWWhatsup NYC
> http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy
>
>
>
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