[Chapter-delegates] [Africanchapters] Next week meeting document

[Terry Monroe]

Thanks Alan for your comments.  

I understand your support for open source and have heard this sentiment
expressed by several chapters and members, which makes sense given the
nature of our community.  The business rules are meant to focus on
interactions between the various constituencies that would interface with
the membership system, irrespective of whether the system is proprietary
(closed) or open source.  If there are specific examples in the draft rules
that you believe preclude consideration of an open source solution, please
let us know. 

As to your other points, renewal dates are intended to maintain the accuracy
of member information in the system, particularly as the number of
individual members grows (we currently are at 26,000+ and growing).  Just
because an e-mail goes address is working doesn't mean the person is looking
at our emails or is active.  The idea was to use this as a way to maintain
an active membership, and we didn't think that asking individuals once a
year to reaffirm their ISOC membership was burdensome.

As for the issue of a distributed system, other chapters have raised that
point as well and is something that makes sense to look at moving forward.  

Regarding privacy issues, this has been discussed on the list and it appears
we may be able to address it by having an affirmative consent requirement.

A question for you regarding your proposed change to 3.5...to the extent an
an individual member can update their personal data through a chapter
membership system, are you assuming a distributed system whereby that
information is also updated in the ISOC Global system?  

I will follow up with you separately so we can discuss in greater detail.

Regards,

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of Alan Levin
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 6:40 AM
To: africanchapters at elists.isoc.org; Chapter Delegates
Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] [Africanchapters] Next week meeting
document

Hi,
> also find the same document at The Business Rules are on the  
> Chapter wiki (which you need to log in to first) at:
My comments follow the Business Rules below.  I am a little concerned  
about these as it has been such a long process and yet many or most  
of these rules seem to be unworkable from our chapters perspective  
(as it seems similar to many others). I did participate and assist  
the consultant during the investigation and also sent many warning  
messages as it appeared that this may happen.

My main concern was around the background of the consultant who has  
not any experience working in an open source project. Similarly I  
found that his experience and skills are very  much built around  
commercial and proprietary experiences with little or no familiarity  
with non-profits, (IETF) standards or civil society. I suspect we  
will need a good open source - standards - type person to take a  
leadership role on this in order to get consensus.

Anyhow some of my more detailed responses below:

> 1. Membership Eligibility
> 1.1 All members of an ISOC Chapter must also be members of ISOC  
> Global.
> 1.2 An individual may be a member of ISOC Global and choose not to  
> be a member of an ISOC Chapter.
> 1.3 ISOC Chapters may choose to charge individuals for Chapter  
> membership and make that a condition of Chapter eligibility, but  
> are not required to do so.
> 1.4 Chapters may choose to have corporate members and charge them  
> dues associated with the organization's participation in Chapter  
> activities.

All accepted AND: We have a rule that I believe applies universally:
Members must have a valid email address and must inform the chapter  
if this email address changes

> 2. Membership Renewal and Dues
> 2.1 An individual's renewal date for ISOC Chapter membership and  
> ISOC Global membership shall be the same.
> 2.2 .Individuals are required to re-affirm periodically their ISOC  
> Global and Chapter memberships (suggested term is annually).
> 2.3 If an individual chooses to renew Chapter membership, it will  
> be assumed that the member also is reaffirming ISOC Global membership.
> 2.4 Individuals may choose to reaffirm Global membership and not  
> reaffirm their Chapter membership.
> 2.5 An individual that does not reaffirm ISOC Global membership  
> will result in that individual being changed to non-member status  
> (only after the individual has been given several opportunities to  
> reaffirm their membership through multiple reminders from ISOC  
> Global and chapters). That individual should be similarly changed  
> to non-member status for ISOC Chapter membership.
> 2.6 Collection of Chapter dues is the responsibility of the  
> individual Chapters.

None of this is applicable in our chapter, I believe that similar is  
true for many other African and other chapters. Members do not need  
to 'renew' their membership.

I feel strongly that this is a nice to have but not a need to have. I  
believe that it was the financial elements of the system that  
resulted in the failure of the (current) 'Go' system.

> 3. Data Collection and Management
> 3.1 The source and repository for information relating to ISOC  
> membership is the ISOC Global membership system.

Why should it not be a distributed system?

> 3.2 To be an ISOC Global member, an individual may be asked to  
> provide at a minimum (where applicable) first name, last name, a  
> unique email address, city, state/province and country.

We do not require a unique email address. For example a husband and  
wife or two elderly sisters may share an email account (address) and  
still be separate members. The unique combination of the three  
fields, name/surname/email address is how we count members.

> NOTE: The need to address privacy laws within certain countries may  
> limit data that can be collected and/or the ability to send that  
> data outside of that country without the explicit consent of the  
> individual.

For many reasons a distributed system works better.

> 3.3 Every reasonable effort should be made to accommodate local  
> languages and non-ASCII characters for data collection display,  
> while ensuring that the data also can be managed by ISOC Global  
> using a common language/character set.

n/a

> 3.4 ISOC Global shall provide authorized ISOC Chapter  
> representatives with a simple format for obtaining information on  
> their chapter members and for updating the ISOC Global membership  
> system. ISOC Chapters shall take be responsible for keeping their  
> member data current and accurate.

We require that the members are responsible for keeping their data  
current and accurate.

> 3.5 Individual members should have the ability to update their  
> personal data through the ISOC Global membership system.

I'm not sure about this one. Would prefer if it read: "Individual  
members should have the ability to update their personal data through  
the ISOC Global or chapters membership system."

> 3.6 ISOC Global shall notify ISOC Chapters of any email  
> correspondence that is returned as "undeliverable" so that the ISOC  
> Chapter may contact the member for an updated email address.

If the member has not informed us of their new address and the old  
one bounces (after excessive tries - using mailman which tries for a  
month for example) then we remove them from our membership.

Hope this helps,

Alan




-- 
Alan Levin - Chairman
Internet Society of South Africa



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