From craig at tereschau.net Wed May 1 08:26:04 2024 From: craig at tereschau.net (Craig Partridge) Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 09:26:04 -0600 Subject: [ih] receipts & OS modifications for IMPs [networks] Message-ID: John Day raised two points in the discussion of flow control that I thought I'd lift up to a discussion on their own. 1. John mentioned the jest: how do you interface to an IMP? Make it look like a tape drive! ;-) This jest points up what was a serious and long-running debate in the OS and applications community about the abstract interface should be to both applications and the operating system - a debate that persisted from the late 1970s into the early 1990s. The great innovation of UNIX was to make pipes -- byte streams -- first class OS objects and then create an ecosystem that leveraged pipes (with glorious things like grep piped to sed and such like). TCP fit well with pipes; UDP (and the short lived RDP, but also ICMP and such) didn't. Then there was the issue of how the OS and its supporting applications (things that brought interfaces up and such) interacted with network interfaces. Sockets won this fight, but it was a long and tricky muddle. 2. John mentioned receipts and issues of who handles flow control and how acks fit in. Keep in mind that, again, through the mid-1990s, we did not understand fully general acknowledgement schemes -- by which I mean, ack schemes that allowed tracking of packets received out of order, or in order but with gaps. Automatic Repeat Request (ARQ) research had worked out how to handle acks for packets in order and what to do if a single packet was missing, but beyond those fundamental challenges we took a long time to figure out what to do. Craig -- ***** Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities and mailing lists. From jack at 3kitty.org Wed May 1 11:54:29 2024 From: jack at 3kitty.org (Jack Haverty) Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 11:54:29 -0700 Subject: [ih] Flow Control in IP In-Reply-To: <218c166b-4b2a-4e73-bcad-b405ee6651ee@iwl.com> References: <77b2dca3-746d-4c4b-8b26-54518b87c470@web.de> <5b25baac-21f3-4f18-a15c-deee7dbcead2@iwl.com> <1ABD84B2-DD12-4C7F-A3A2-76F8048A8A5F@comcast.net> <218c166b-4b2a-4e73-bcad-b405ee6651ee@iwl.com> Message-ID: On 4/30/24 15:00, Karl Auerbach via Internet-history wrote: > I think Steve Crocker answered your question about RFNM and why we > needed to deal with it across our cryptographic barrier. One aspect of the Arpanet's flow control is often overlooked. ? The IMPs were connected to the Hosts through a serial wire interface, defined by the 1822 specification.? An IMP could as a last resort to control flow from one of its Hosts could simply turn off the clock on that serial line.? That would block all traffic from that Host, on all connections, to all destinations.?? It was "hardware flow control". RFNMs provided a mechanism to avoid such blocking, and led to "RFNM Counting" as an element of the Host's code. ? In 1977-1978, I was writing TCP for Unix, and had never written any code before to directly interact with an IMP. ? Occasionally in my testing, all traffic flow would stop.? Investigation revealed that the IMP was blocking all traffic, and I learned it was because my code was not "counting RFNMs". It may have changed over time with new IMP releases, but at the time any Host could have no more than 8 "messages in flight" across the Arpanet.? If you tried to send the 9th message, the IMP would block all traffic from your host until whatever was causing the congestion had cleared. For a TCP, that behavior also meant that all traffic on all connections would be blocked.? To avoid such events, your code could "count RFNMs". ? Simply increment a counter when a message is sent to the IMP, and decrement the counter when the related RFNM is received.? Also, avoid sending any 9th message, and reflect that flow control back up to whatever application is using that TCP connection. ? How to do that was of course different for each computer and operating system. In the earlier days of the Arpanet, I think that the "messages in flight" limit was one, so that RFNM really did mean "Ready For Next Message".? If you tried to send a message before the IMP was Ready, the IMP would shut off the clock to keep you quiet.? But as the IMP evolved the limit was 8 by the time TCP appeared. Of course, not all networks had the ability to do hardware flow control.? This impacted systems such as Gateways (aka routers now).?? A Gateway interfaced to the Arpanet had to "count RFNMs" as well, if it wanted to avoid all traffic being blocked to all hosts, and other gateways, on the Arpanet.? But it often had no mechanism available to reflect that flow control "back" across some other network. If a datagram arrived from an Ethernet, for example, destined to be sent to the Arpanet, but sending it would exceed the 8-in-flight limit, the Gateway had only two choices: put the datagram in a buffer, if any were available, or discard it, and possibly send back a "Source Quench" ICMP datagram to the sender, hoping that the sender would "slow down".?? Source Quench was a placeholder for some kind of effective flow control mechanism at the IP level, once someone figured out how to do such a thing. Of course the Arpanet is long gone now.?? Personally, I don't know if any of today's pieces of the Internet have any kind of "hardware flow control" or IP flow control available or if so how they use it. ? The same choices still exist though:? keep datagrams in a buffer or discard them. ? Memory has gotten a lot less expensive over the decades.? We even have a new named phenomenon: "Buffer Bloat", to replace "RFNM Counting" in the networking lexicon. Jack Haverty -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OpenPGP_signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 665 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeanjour at comcast.net Wed May 1 13:21:13 2024 From: jeanjour at comcast.net (John Day) Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 16:21:13 -0400 Subject: [ih] receipts & OS modifications for IMPs [networks] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E9B7A97-D10B-4D00-A3C2-93F4BFB46C9C@comcast.net> Inline below. > On May 1, 2024, at 11:26, Craig Partridge via Internet-history wrote: > > John Day raised two points in the discussion of flow control that I > thought I'd lift up to a discussion on their own. > > 1. John mentioned the jest: how do you interface to an IMP? Make it > look like a tape drive! ;-) > > This jest points up what was a serious and long-running debate in the > OS and applications community about the abstract interface should be > to both applications and the operating system - a debate that > persisted from the late 1970s into the early 1990s. The great > innovation of UNIX was to make pipes -- byte streams -- first class OS > objects and then create an ecosystem that leveraged pipes (with > glorious things like grep piped to sed and such like). TCP fit well > with pipes; UDP (and the short lived RDP, but also ICMP and such) > didn't. Then there was the issue of how the OS and its supporting > applications (things that brought interfaces up and such) interacted > with network interfaces. Sockets won this fight, but it was a long > and tricky muddle. To respond, my comment was purely about how to model the device driver for interfacing BBN 1822 to an OS. As for the API interface to applications, that is a whole different kettle of fish. We put the first UNIX system on the ?Net in 1975 and there was never any issue about what to do. We quickly determined that UNIX didn?t really have good IPC. Pipes were clearly a non-starter (and frankly surprisingly limited). The one property of any protocol is that it must be able to accept input from above or below at any time. Protocols are not purely request/response. This was clearly something Dennis and Ritchie didn?t get, nor most other OS designs. (I should note here that several years earlier we had modified the Burroughs MCP to support IPC. MCP was what Burroughs called their OS.) Pipes showed that UNIX was clueless when it came to IPC because they were asymmetric and blocking. I have already mentioned the problems with asymmetric, blocking APIs. Although, Craig is correct that it took computer science and the industry a long time to get rid of that stupidity. As I said in an earlier post, the Apollo workstations were enamored with mailboxes for IPCs. They were either incredibly short-sighted or as I have long suspected most CS people are afraid of asynchrony. (Asynchrony has a long tradition at Illinois. Four computers built there all used asynchronous logic. Not sure whether we were comfortable with it or just new it was a hard requirement that had to be solved.) For that first implementation, we didn?t have time to solve the IPC problem, so it was finessed by putting the NCP in the kernel (where on an 11/45 it barely fit). The applications were in user space. Telnet was implemented as two processes one incoming and one outgoing ;-) and stty and gtty were hacked so the two processes could do what was necessary. That was okay, because at the time all applications were built on Telnet. Once that was up and running, a true non-blocking IPC mechanism was developed for UNIX, which was working within a couple of months and allowed Telnet to be cleaned up. For the API to applications, file_io was modified slightly to make accessing the Net look like file operations. Why? Because it just made good sense. To open a connection from Unix, a program merely executed, = open(ucsd/telnet). The code looked up the host name in the host table to get the address and had a table of well-known sockets. Later in 1976 Unix was stripped down to fit on an LSI-11 (a one board PDP-11) and used for an 'intelligent terminal' that a plasma screen and touch (it had a keyboard but was mainly not necessary) and connected to the 11/45 and the Net. It was used for a land-use management system for the 6 counties around Chicago and was also deployed within the DoD. Steve Bunch who is on this list can add considerable detail to all of this. Years later, when Bill Joy was proposing the Sockets API for Berkeley UNIX, Bunch and Michel Gien (of Chorus, formerly with CYCLADES) met with Joy to try to convince him that a file-like API made more sense. But Joy was too infatuated with Sockets. I consider this one of the major bad decisions the Internet ever made. With the file-like API, the Internet could have seamlessly transitioned to application-names and away from well-known ports and no one would ever have known the difference. And DNS could have been used to look up application names. (Naming the host was irrelevant anyway.) Application-names are a major missing part of the architecture which makes mobility as cumbersome as it is and requires applications to invent their own means to open a connection to a specific instance of an application. (I have also been told that Sockets delayed Microsoft adoption of IPv6 by 2 years because every application that access the network had to be modified.) As I said before, the RPC vs IPC debate was one of the biggest wastes of time and effort to roil CS. It really does seem most in CS fear asynchrony. > > 2. John mentioned receipts and issues of who handles flow control and > how acks fit in. > > Keep in mind that, again, through the mid-1990s, we did not understand > fully general acknowledgement schemes -- by which I mean, ack schemes > that allowed tracking of packets received out of order, or in order > but with gaps. Automatic Repeat Request (ARQ) research had worked > out how to handle acks for packets in order and what to do if a single > packet was missing, but beyond those fundamental challenges we took a > long time to figure out what to do. Again, Receipt Confirmation was about letting the sending Application know when Acks were received. This was primarily a big deal for the phone companies who didn?t really understand layers. (not surprising). ;-) The user of a layer should indicate what is desired of the communication, not how it is done. Basically, the user indicates what it needs, the layer determines how best to do it that relative to all of there requests it is dealing with. (This is why the layer is a distributed resource allocator.) This was clear with CYCLADES and pretty well in place by the late 70s. This is why the primitives for a layer should look like open (destination-application-name, source-application-name, QoS-parameters) QoS says what is characteristics are requested, the layer figures out how to do that. As for acknowledgements, it is clear that the primary purpose of acks is to delete packets from the retransmission queue. An Ack doesn?t mean ?I got it?, but ?I am not going to ask you to retransmit it.? One of the QoS parameters should be maximum allowed gap in terms of the units of data passed to the layer. (This is what CYCLADES called a letter in their transport protocol and what OSI called an SDU. SDUs were made into one or more PDUs, or several SDUs into a single PDU. The CYCLADES Transport Protocol (and INWG96) maintained the identity of letters from end-to-end. Of course, this is much more difficult to do with in TCP because of its stream interface.) As I have pointed out elsewhere, the stream concept is the protocol implementors view, while the letter concept is the layer users view. Still today, we see one of the shortcomings leveled at TCP is that it doesn?t support the what applications want, i.e., letters. (Funny to see this being asked for after 40 years of it being ignored.) Not surprisingly UNIX (and Multics) was focused on the system implementors view, not the system user?s view. (I have to admit that for a long time I was an advocate of the stream approach, but a lot of thinking and looking at the arguments convinced me that was incorrect. Subsequently, I have found that it does make things go together much better.) All of the focus on the ARQ discussions was far too focused on the data transmission aspects, the engineering aspects if you will and not on the overall systems aspects. Also, too many people saw networking as closer to telecom, when it never was. It was always much closer to operating systems. The telecom considerations really never get beyond the physical layer. Again, it is just unfortunate that so much time and energy was spent on these issues. I have to say that in all of the debates I participated in from 1975 to 1990, I found that the Europeans were giving more consideration to the overall system aspects of solutions than the Americans. I never took their word for it, but after careful thought, it caused me to change my mind on several things and they have been borne out by much simpler solutions. Take care, John > > Craig > > > -- > ***** > Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities > and mailing lists. > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history From sob at sobco.com Fri May 3 10:32:29 2024 From: sob at sobco.com (Scott Bradner) Date: Fri, 3 May 2024 13:32:29 -0400 Subject: [ih] selfie - - Forks in the Digital Road Message-ID: <8227954C-99BB-462C-88A8-716908DC7607@sobco.com> a take on the key decisions that made the Internet (many of which have been talked about on this list - e.g. splitting TCP & IP) https://global.oup.com/academic/product/forks-in-the-digital-road-9780197617779?cc=us&lang=en& Scott From paf at paftech.se Sun May 5 02:59:24 2024 From: paf at paftech.se (=?utf-8?Q?Patrik_F=C3=A4ltstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 11:59:24 +0200 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: ?50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, accounting, and timeouts are exposed. https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. Thanks Vint and Bob! Patrik From vgcerf at gmail.com Sun May 5 03:36:17 2024 From: vgcerf at gmail.com (vinton cerf) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 06:36:17 -0400 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: Thanks for these kind words - as you know, many, including you, have labored to grow the Internet from the seeds planted many years ago. It was especially nice to see Bob recognized just a few days ago with the IEEE Medal of Honor, partly in recognition of his work on TCP as well as many other contributions over the years to science and engineering. v On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 5:59?AM Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet > switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > > They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a > transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and > acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > > It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, > Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > > > A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in > different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for > variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, > sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and > destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation > issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, > accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > > > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > > I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > > Thanks Vint and Bob! > > Patrik > > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > From vgcerf at gmail.com Sun May 5 08:42:27 2024 From: vgcerf at gmail.com (vinton cerf) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 11:42:27 -0400 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: <5A7A4814-EA96-4985-889D-E2046045DE5E@paftech.se> References: <5A7A4814-EA96-4985-889D-E2046045DE5E@paftech.se> Message-ID: I will join you, remotely, Patrik!! vint On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 7:37?AM Patrik F?ltstr?m wrote: > I agree with you that everyone on this list, and many more people, each > one as an individual and in various constellations, have indeed done their > part. Because this is indeed a team sport. > > That said, that the two of you ultimately managed to get this paper > published although many helped with the work behind it, is a very important > milestone. > > Rising a glass for you tonight at least I will do! > > Thanks! > > paf > > 5 maj 2024 kl. 12:36 skrev vinton cerf : > > ? > Thanks for these kind words - as you know, many, including you, have > labored to grow the Internet from the seeds planted many years ago. It was > especially nice to see Bob recognized just a few days ago with the IEEE > Medal of Honor, partly in recognition of his work on TCP as well as many > other contributions over the years to science and engineering. > > v > > > On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 5:59?AM Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > >> 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet >> switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. >> >> They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a >> transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and >> acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." >> >> It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, >> Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 >> >> > A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in >> different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for >> variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, >> sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and >> destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation >> issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, >> accounting, and timeouts are exposed. >> >> >> https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf >> >> I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. >> >> Thanks Vint and Bob! >> >> Patrik >> >> -- >> Internet-history mailing list >> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org >> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history >> > From cdel at firsthand.net Sun May 5 10:30:31 2024 From: cdel at firsthand.net (Christian de Larrinaga) Date: Sun, 05 May 2024 18:30:31 +0100 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <5A7A4814-EA96-4985-889D-E2046045DE5E@paftech.se> Message-ID: <18f49cea6d8.280b.309c751ed1a5bb0c3a416b43c65c0cd7@firsthand.net> Cheers, salut.! .... contemplating history is definitely a team sport. Christian On 5 May 2024 16:42:55 vinton cerf via Internet-history wrote: > I will join you, remotely, Patrik!! > > vint > > > On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 7:37?AM Patrik F?ltstr?m wrote: > >> I agree with you that everyone on this list, and many more people, each >> one as an individual and in various constellations, have indeed done their >> part. Because this is indeed a team sport. >> >> That said, that the two of you ultimately managed to get this paper >> published although many helped with the work behind it, is a very important >> milestone. >> >> Rising a glass for you tonight at least I will do! >> >> Thanks! >> >> paf >> >> 5 maj 2024 kl. 12:36 skrev vinton cerf : >> >> ? >> Thanks for these kind words - as you know, many, including you, have >> labored to grow the Internet from the seeds planted many years ago. It was >> especially nice to see Bob recognized just a few days ago with the IEEE >> Medal of Honor, partly in recognition of his work on TCP as well as many >> other contributions over the years to science and engineering. >> >> v >> >> >> On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 5:59?AM Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < >> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: >> >>> 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet >>> switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. >>> >>> They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a >>> transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and >>> acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." >>> >>> It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, >>> Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 >>> >>> > A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in >>> different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for >>> variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, >>> sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and >>> destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation >>> issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, >>> accounting, and timeouts are exposed. >>> >>> >>> https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf >>> >>> I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. >>> >>> Thanks Vint and Bob! >>> >>> Patrik >>> >>> -- >>> Internet-history mailing list >>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org >>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history >>> >> > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history From karl at iwl.com Sun May 5 12:12:21 2024 From: karl at iwl.com (Karl Auerbach) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 12:12:21 -0700 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: By-the-way, there is an event on May 19: https://engage.ieee.org/celebrate-i50 I would add, however, that the Internet is more than just TCP/IP. I tend to think of TCP/IP as the super-glue that allowed several diverse energies to come together. We had the need of research and academic communities to share information and resources, we had growing communities of USENET and BBS people who had become familiar with network based communications, we had government $$ from agencies desirous of making networks happen, we had passed through a legal evolution in which the telco monopolies had been eroded and their utility services pried open (i.e. via HushAPhone, Carterphone, MCI cases), and computers that could be nodes on networks became smaller and more ubiquitous (first with mini-computers then with personal computers.) In other words, we had a supersaturated solution of need and desire - TCP was the invention that triggered the precipitation of the Internet. --karl-- On 5/5/24 2:59 AM, Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history wrote: > ?50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > > They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > > It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > >> A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > > I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > > Thanks Vint and Bob! > > Patrik > From vgcerf at gmail.com Sun May 5 12:13:51 2024 From: vgcerf at gmail.com (vinton cerf) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 15:13:51 -0400 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: I hope no one disagrees with that observation, Karl. I sure don't. v On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 3:12?PM Karl Auerbach via Internet-history < internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > By-the-way, there is an event on May 19: > > https://engage.ieee.org/celebrate-i50 > > I would add, however, that the Internet is more than just TCP/IP. > > I tend to think of TCP/IP as the super-glue that allowed several diverse > energies to come together. > > We had the need of research and academic communities to share > information and resources, we had growing communities of USENET and BBS > people who had become familiar with network based communications, we had > government $$ from agencies desirous of making networks happen, we had > passed through a legal evolution in which the telco monopolies had been > eroded and their utility services pried open (i.e. via HushAPhone, > Carterphone, MCI cases), and computers that could be nodes on networks > became smaller and more ubiquitous (first with mini-computers then with > personal computers.) > > In other words, we had a supersaturated solution of need and desire - > TCP was the invention that triggered the precipitation of the Internet. > > --karl-- > > On 5/5/24 2:59 AM, Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history wrote: > > ?50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on > packet switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > > > > They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a > transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and > acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > > > > It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, > Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > > > >> A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in > different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for > variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, > sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and > destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation > issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, > accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > > > > > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > > > > I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > > > > Thanks Vint and Bob! > > > > Patrik > > > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > From alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com Sun May 5 14:22:09 2024 From: alejandroacostaalamo at gmail.com (Alejandro Acosta) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 16:22:09 -0500 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: <0cf9f702-8322-11aa-a8c0-c4dda8444823@gmail.com> Hello, thanks for bridging this up, tomorrow I will mention it during LACNIC 41 event :-) On 5/5/24 4:59?AM, Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history wrote: > ?50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > > They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > > It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > >> A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > > I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > > Thanks Vint and Bob! > > Patrik > From gaylord at dirtcheapemail.com Sun May 5 14:59:08 2024 From: gaylord at dirtcheapemail.com (Clark Gaylord) Date: Sun, 5 May 2024 17:59:08 -0400 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: Of course we all know the *real* value of that paper: it's the only picture of Vint sans vest ? On Sun, May 5, 2024, 05:59 Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet > switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > > They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a > transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and > acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > > It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, > Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > > > A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in > different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for > variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, > sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and > destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation > issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, > accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > > > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > > I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > > Thanks Vint and Bob! > > Patrik > > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > From brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com Mon May 6 13:48:23 2024 From: brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com (Brian E Carpenter) Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 08:48:23 +1200 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: On 06-May-24 09:59, Clark Gaylord via Internet-history wrote: > Of course we all know the *real* value of that paper: it's the only picture > of Vint sans vest ? By which, I think, you must mean a waistcoat. But surely you are overlooking the cover of the August 1996 issue of Boardwatch Magazine? (https://archive.org/details/Boardwatch_10.8_AUG_1996) Thanks for the reminder, Patrik. Brian > > On Sun, May 5, 2024, 05:59 Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > >> 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on packet >> switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. >> >> They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a >> transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and >> acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." >> >> It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, >> Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 >> >>> A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in >> different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides for >> variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, >> sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation and >> destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some implementation >> issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, >> accounting, and timeouts are exposed. >> >> >> https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf >> >> I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. >> >> Thanks Vint and Bob! >> >> Patrik >> >> -- >> Internet-history mailing list >> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org >> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history >> From vgcerf at gmail.com Mon May 6 13:50:02 2024 From: vgcerf at gmail.com (vinton cerf) Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 16:50:02 -0400 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: thanks for that reminder, Brian!! v On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 4:48?PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history < internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > On 06-May-24 09:59, Clark Gaylord via Internet-history wrote: > > Of course we all know the *real* value of that paper: it's the only > picture > > of Vint sans vest ? > > By which, I think, you must mean a waistcoat. But surely you are > overlooking > the cover of the August 1996 issue of Boardwatch Magazine? > > (https://archive.org/details/Boardwatch_10.8_AUG_1996) > > Thanks for the reminder, Patrik. > > Brian > > > > > On Sun, May 5, 2024, 05:59 Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < > > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > > > >> 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on > packet > >> switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > >> > >> They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a > >> transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and > >> acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > >> > >> It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, > >> Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > >> > >>> A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in > >> different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides > for > >> variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, > >> sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation > and > >> destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some > implementation > >> issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, > >> accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > >> > >> > >> > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > >> > >> I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > >> > >> Thanks Vint and Bob! > >> > >> Patrik > >> > >> -- > >> Internet-history mailing list > >> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > >> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > >> > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > From apisanty at gmail.com Mon May 6 14:53:43 2024 From: apisanty at gmail.com (Alejandro Pisanty) Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 15:53:43 -0600 Subject: [ih] TCP In-Reply-To: References: <4E819191-AC8F-4F3F-85B9-032E7FB74ECB@netnod.se> Message-ID: Brian, there's another picture of Vint without a 3-piece suit in the IEEE article on Bob Kahn of the last few days. In sports attire, in a forest. Alejandro Pisanty On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 2:48?PM Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history < internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > On 06-May-24 09:59, Clark Gaylord via Internet-history wrote: > > Of course we all know the *real* value of that paper: it's the only > picture > > of Vint sans vest ? > > By which, I think, you must mean a waistcoat. But surely you are > overlooking > the cover of the August 1996 issue of Boardwatch Magazine? > > (https://archive.org/details/Boardwatch_10.8_AUG_1996) > > Thanks for the reminder, Patrik. > > Brian > > > > > On Sun, May 5, 2024, 05:59 Patrik F?ltstr?m via Internet-history < > > internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote: > > > >> 50 years ago today Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn published their paper on > packet > >> switching which is the basis for the Internet we use today. > >> > >> They did come up with TCP: "Within a HOST we assume that existence of a > >> transmission control program (TCP) which handles the transmission and > >> acceptance of messages on behalf of the processes it serves." > >> > >> It was published in IEEE Transactions on Communications ( Volume: 22, > >> Issue: 5, May 1974): https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1092259 > >> > >>> A protocol that supports the sharing of resources that exist in > >> different packet switching networks is presented. The protocol provides > for > >> variation in individual network packet sizes, transmission failures, > >> sequencing, flow control, end-to-end error checking, and the creation > and > >> destruction of logical process-to-process connections. Some > implementation > >> issues are considered, and problems such as internetwork routing, > >> accounting, and timeouts are exposed. > >> > >> > >> > https://www.cs.princeton.edu/courses/archive/fall06/cos561/papers/cerf74.pdf > >> > >> I think this is the right moment to just say ?and the rest is history?. > >> > >> Thanks Vint and Bob! > >> > >> Patrik > >> > >> -- > >> Internet-history mailing list > >> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > >> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > >> > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Qu?mica UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . From geoff at iconia.com Tue May 7 12:01:41 2024 From: geoff at iconia.com (the keyboard of geoff goodfellow) Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 12:01:41 -0700 Subject: [ih] FCC net neutrality order is out (Released: May 7, 2024) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ??https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-24-52A1.pdf -- Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com living as The Truth is True From bpurvy at gmail.com Wed May 8 21:04:52 2024 From: bpurvy at gmail.com (Bob Purvy) Date: Wed, 8 May 2024 21:04:52 -0700 Subject: [ih] This New Internet Thing: Chapter 1 Message-ID: Chapter 1 of my new book, "This New Internet Thing." You can read it for free, Charles Dickens-style, one chapter a week. Or you can buy the book and binge on it. As I hope you will. It comes out May 29. I probably won't do this every week, but you can subscribe for free and get it emailed to you. =============== 1990: Being ?online? meant a modem squealing, screeching, and tying up your phone. Only geeks had even heard of the Internet. Silicon Valley was flailing for the Next Big Thing. At 17, Len went alone to New York City in 1942, to discover what happened to his brother. After many years at Chrysler in Detroit, he is retiring and moving to California to be near his daughter, Janet. She is a successful executive, who thinks, ?Why would I use a computer at home? I use one all day at work!? He dips a toe in the internet waters with Prodigy. Intrigued, he moves on to AOL, then bulletin boards. A pastor asks him to find the person stealing money from his charity. ?Another mystery to solve!? Janet?s friends help him crack the case, and a comic street fight lands him on TV. Len sees something they can?t: the Internet! https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/this-new-internet-thing-0f7 From bpurvy at gmail.com Wed May 15 21:45:32 2024 From: bpurvy at gmail.com (Bob Purvy) Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 21:45:32 -0700 Subject: [ih] This New Internet Thing, Chapter 2 Message-ID: https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/this-new-internet-thing-chapter-2 hey, if you'd rather I didn't send these out weekly, I will stop. Anyhow, some of you helped me with the research. Usenet comes later! From cos at aaaaa.org Thu May 16 13:37:54 2024 From: cos at aaaaa.org (Ofer Inbar) Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 16:37:54 -0400 Subject: [ih] Resurrection of archie Message-ID: <20240516203754.GZ31526@miplet.aaaaa.org> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUwR9xdEuZI -- Cos From crypto at glassblower.info Wed May 22 10:08:28 2024 From: crypto at glassblower.info (Tony Patti) Date: Wed, 22 May 2024 13:08:28 -0400 Subject: [ih] C. Gordon Bell, Creator of a Personal Computer Prototype, Dies at 89 - The New York Times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04f701daac6a$aa544050$fefcc0f0$@glassblower.info> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/21/technology/c-gordon-bell-dead.html By Glenn Rifkin May 21, 2024, 3:37 p.m. ET C. Gordon Bell, a technology visionary whose computer designs for Digital Equipment Corporation fueled the emergence of the minicomputer industry in the 1960s, died on Friday in Coronado, Calif. He was 89.