From brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com  Fri Aug  2 19:08:31 2024
From: brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com (Brian E Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2024 14:08:31 +1200
Subject: [ih] Fwd: Tomorrow in IPv6 history...
In-Reply-To: <CAN-Dau2fDvVCy2wXnOGDU5ibiu4OKwepAuPTj4sAOkHAGYxJow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN-Dau2fDvVCy2wXnOGDU5ibiu4OKwepAuPTj4sAOkHAGYxJow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbf7d366-afc5-423a-ac5b-e43c735ad5fa@gmail.com>

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[v6ops] Fwd: Tomorrow in IPv6 history...
Date: 	Fri, 2 Aug 2024 20:12:06 -0500
From: 	David Farmer <farmer=40umn.edu at dmarc.ietf.org>
To: 	V6 Ops List <v6ops at ietf.org>

I thought this would be of interest?to all of you.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: *Michael Sinatra* <ms at es.net <mailto:ms at es.net>>
Date: Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 6:36?PM
Subject: Tomorrow in IPv6 history...
To: <wg-ipv6 at internet2.edu <mailto:wg-ipv6 at internet2.edu>>


If you marked your calendar when I posted last year, this shouldn't be a surprise:

https://lightbytes.es.net/2024/08/02/25-years-of-production-ipv6-in-esnet/

Feel free to email me here with any corrections you happen to deem necessary.

michael



From geoff at iconia.com  Sun Aug 18 18:18:10 2024
From: geoff at iconia.com (the keyboard of geoff goodfellow)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 18:18:10 -0700
Subject: [ih] History of Neutral Commercial Internet Exchange: The PAIX
 Story (Paul Vixie November 2011)
Message-ID: <CAEf-zrihqJujVpRSoiGVY1V1_qHCvs-8qt4BRGWN2wotfw0u4A@mail.gmail.com>

??https://www.enog.org/presentations/enog-2/12-2011-11-28-paix-history.pdf

h/t: Frantisek Borsik
[NNagain] nn back in the news
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/nnagain/2024-August/000785.html

-- 
Geoff.Goodfellow at iconia.com
living as The Truth is True


From jericho at attrition.org  Wed Aug 21 08:05:39 2024
From: jericho at attrition.org (Jared E. Richo)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:05:39 -0600
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
Message-ID: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>


https://x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601

This is the most research I've done for a blog post. Ever. It's taken 
months, reviewing hundreds of papers, standards, RFCs, interviews, etc. 
I was lucky to get to talk to some people from the original P802.

This is the History of Ethernet.


https://lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-do-we-have-different-frame-types/


From bpurvy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 08:23:21 2024
From: bpurvy at gmail.com (Bob Purvy)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 08:23:21 -0700
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
Message-ID: <CAFq6nVHQSs3FNfR-EibGAZv5JRNyaao-rYLhNuKdjtooA+osmg@mail.gmail.com>

So much work! Congratulations. You know that Bob Metcalfe is online, right?

I wrote a historical novel:  https://www.albertcory.io/inventing-the-future

that tries to recreate what our reaction to the Ethernet was, back then.
Obviously not everyone was a fan. I also have a whole chapter on the great
lightning strike of 1978 that took down the Xerox Ethernet. Even though I
was there at the time, I had no memory of it, so I had to rely on research
to find out what happened.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 8:05?AM Jared E. Richo via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

>
> https://x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601
>
> This is the most research I've done for a blog post. Ever. It's taken
> months, reviewing hundreds of papers, standards, RFCs, interviews, etc.
> I was lucky to get to talk to some people from the original P802.
>
> This is the History of Ethernet.
>
>
>
> https://lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-do-we-have-different-frame-types/
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>


From pugs78 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 08:32:35 2024
From: pugs78 at gmail.com (Tom Lyon)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 08:32:35 -0700
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
Message-ID: <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>

Good history of the *standardization* of Ethernet, but not the history of
deployment of DIX and how that became the de-facto standard.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 8:05?AM Jared E. Richo via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

>
> https://x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601
>
> This is the most research I've done for a blog post. Ever. It's taken
> months, reviewing hundreds of papers, standards, RFCs, interviews, etc.
> I was lucky to get to talk to some people from the original P802.
>
> This is the History of Ethernet.
>
>
>
> https://lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-do-we-have-different-frame-types/
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>


From dhc at dcrocker.net  Wed Aug 21 09:15:16 2024
From: dhc at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 09:15:16 -0700
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ae32240-7f23-47d6-a01d-596f4d519832@dcrocker.net>

On 8/21/2024 8:32 AM, Tom Lyon via Internet-history wrote:
> Good history of the*standardization*  of Ethernet, but not the history of
> deployment of DIX and how that became the de-facto standard.

Latter part of the 1970s, there was quite a bit of debate about 
token-based vs. contention-based networking. Token sounds more 
appealing, exactly because of the tidy allocation discipline.? In 
contrast Aloha and Ethernet are a randomization mess.

At one point I was shown the card for the Irving Ring token system and 
was told that about one-quarter of its real-estate was for creating the 
token, using what was actually a contention scheme.? If that much was 
needed just to get token started, I suspected the implicit simplicity of 
contention would make it the likely winner.

I'll also mention that years earlier, my brother, Steve, who lived next 
door to me, came in one day all excited about the just-published Aloha 
scheme.? He described it's complete lack of any coordination among 
participants.? After a brief pause, he said that's why it is important 
to fund widely diverse research efforts.? I queried his meaning.? He 
said that the complete lack of coordination that the system was based on 
could not have been created east of the Mississippi...

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social


From jericho at attrition.org  Wed Aug 21 09:18:03 2024
From: jericho at attrition.org (Jared E. Richo)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 10:18:03 -0600
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <CAFq6nVHQSs3FNfR-EibGAZv5JRNyaao-rYLhNuKdjtooA+osmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <CAFq6nVHQSs3FNfR-EibGAZv5JRNyaao-rYLhNuKdjtooA+osmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8597fdf6-dbdf-4938-97be-43c14762772c@attrition.org>


(To be clear, this was not my blog. Just sharing it given the list 
audience!)

On 8/21/2024 9:23 AM, Bob Purvy wrote:
> So much work! Congratulations. You know that Bob Metcalfe is online, right?
> 
> I wrote a historical novel: https://www.albertcory.io/inventing-the- 
> future <https://www.albertcory.io/inventing-the-future>
> 
> that tries to recreate what our reaction to the Ethernet was, back then. 
> Obviously not everyone?was a fan. I also have a whole chapter on the 
> great lightning strike of 1978 that took down the Xerox Ethernet. Even 
> though I was there at the time, I had no memory of it, so I had to rely 
> on research to find out what happened.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 8:05?AM Jared E. Richo via Internet-history 
> <internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:internet- 
> history at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     https://x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601 <https://
>     x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601>
> 
>     This is the most research I've done for a blog post. Ever. It's taken
>     months, reviewing hundreds of papers, standards, RFCs, interviews, etc.
>     I was lucky to get to talk to some people from the original P802.
> 
>     This is the History of Ethernet.
> 
> 
>     https://lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-
>     do-we-have-different-frame-types/ <https://
>     lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-do-we-
>     have-different-frame-types/>
>     -- 
>     Internet-history mailing list
>     Internet-history at elists.isoc.org <mailto:Internet-
>     history at elists.isoc.org>
>     https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history <https://
>     elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history>
> 



From brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 13:07:19 2024
From: brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com (Brian E Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 08:07:19 +1200
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>

Yes, DIX was very important. Especially, at that time, people took Digital and Intel much more seriously than a copying machine company. Xerox PARC was of course a wonderful place, but only in the eyes of the research community. DIX made Ethernet plausible for non-research users. Which ultimately saved us from Token Ring everywhere.

Regards
    Brian Carpenter

On 22-Aug-24 03:32, Tom Lyon via Internet-history wrote:
> Good history of the *standardization* of Ethernet, but not the history of
> deployment of DIX and how that became the de-facto standard.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 8:05?AM Jared E. Richo via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>> https://x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601
>>
>> This is the most research I've done for a blog post. Ever. It's taken
>> months, reviewing hundreds of papers, standards, RFCs, interviews, etc.
>> I was lucky to get to talk to some people from the original P802.
>>
>> This is the History of Ethernet.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-do-we-have-different-frame-types/
>> --
>> Internet-history mailing list
>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>

From dhc at dcrocker.net  Wed Aug 21 13:09:07 2024
From: dhc at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 13:09:07 -0700
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dec42aa8-8bf9-4691-9310-5c62efb0ad66@dcrocker.net>

On 8/21/2024 1:07 PM, Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history wrote:
> Which ultimately saved us from Token Ring everywhere


Especially the IBM version, which was an insertion TR, which means it 
scaled poorly.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social



From brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 13:20:28 2024
From: brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com (Brian E Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 08:20:28 +1200
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ce9cdaef-19e3-4d6e-990e-9b74976bc7ed@gmail.com>

BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a. RFC 826) says:

"This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."

Regards
    Brian

On 22-Aug-24 08:07, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Yes, DIX was very important. Especially, at that time, people took Digital and Intel much more seriously than a copying machine company. Xerox PARC was of course a wonderful place, but only in the eyes of the research community. DIX made Ethernet plausible for non-research users. Which ultimately saved us from Token Ring everywhere.
> 
> Regards
>      Brian Carpenter
> 
> On 22-Aug-24 03:32, Tom Lyon via Internet-history wrote:
>> Good history of the *standardization* of Ethernet, but not the history of
>> deployment of DIX and how that became the de-facto standard.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 8:05?AM Jared E. Richo via Internet-history <
>> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://x.com/danieldibswe/status/1826137555605049601
>>>
>>> This is the most research I've done for a blog post. Ever. It's taken
>>> months, reviewing hundreds of papers, standards, RFCs, interviews, etc.
>>> I was lucky to get to talk to some people from the original P802.
>>>
>>> This is the History of Ethernet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://lostintransit.se/2024/08/21/ethernet-history-deepdive-why-do-we-have-different-frame-types/
>>> --
>>> Internet-history mailing list
>>> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>>

From johnl at iecc.com  Wed Aug 21 15:06:47 2024
From: johnl at iecc.com (John Levine)
Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <ce9cdaef-19e3-4d6e-990e-9b74976bc7ed@gmail.com>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>
 <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce9cdaef-19e3-4d6e-990e-9b74976bc7ed@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0@ary.lan>

It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
>BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a. RFC 826) says:
>
>"This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
>10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
>for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
>directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."

It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.

The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.

R's,
John


From dhc at dcrocker.net  Wed Aug 21 16:06:39 2024
From: dhc at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 16:06:39 -0700
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
In-Reply-To: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0@ary.lan>
References: <04ec847d-7017-40d7-a4fd-422678a4e108@attrition.org>
 <3fecb2b3-4935-4f07-b3ea-0140b1b2b3ba@gmail.com>
 <CANxB0bRH3CqsVbhLTPFKive621pJHMHADQbTkjc9gTV7CJ4m7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <ce9cdaef-19e3-4d6e-990e-9b74976bc7ed@gmail.com>
 <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0@ary.lan>
Message-ID: <84151fac-d603-4555-b873-ef115500273d@dcrocker.net>

On 8/21/2024 3:06 PM, John Levine via Internet-history wrote:
> It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.


It is a lesson about interfaces versus internals.? The current internals 
typically have nothing to do with the original scheme.

Another example of that lesson was Netbios, where only the i/f spec was 
available and various TCP/IP-based solutions eventually led to RFC 
1001/1002, independent of IBM's (and Sytek's) original, proprietary spec.

d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social


From stewart at serissa.com  Wed Aug 21 16:59:55 2024
From: stewart at serissa.com (Lawrence Stewart)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 19:59:55 -0400
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
Message-ID: <C44C83E4-7E4F-4751-B1F2-98F1AB9588F9@serissa.com>

I don?t know what the networking technology of the future will be like, but it will be called Ethernet.*

*unknown




From b_a_denny at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 21 17:48:38 2024
From: b_a_denny at yahoo.com (Barbara Denny)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 00:48:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <C44C83E4-7E4F-4751-B1F2-98F1AB9588F9@serissa.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <C44C83E4-7E4F-4751-B1F2-98F1AB9588F9@serissa.com>
Message-ID: <29188758.10713800.1724287718244@mail.yahoo.com>

 This reminds me of when I first learned about Industrial Ethernet.? It took me a little bit of time to realize that the ethernet in their environment wasn't the ethernet I was familiar with.
barbara
    On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 05:00:19 PM PDT, Lawrence Stewart via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:  
 
 I don?t know what the networking technology of the future will be like, but it will be called Ethernet.*

*unknown


-- 
Internet-history mailing list
Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
  

From bpurvy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 18:04:15 2024
From: bpurvy at gmail.com (Bob Purvy)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 18:04:15 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <29188758.10713800.1724287718244@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <C44C83E4-7E4F-4751-B1F2-98F1AB9588F9@serissa.com>
 <29188758.10713800.1724287718244@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFq6nVH__+CENCX4OGa_E6DoGKerpX+WSODcttOOb_jh6DJecg@mail.gmail.com>

maybe the word's gotten like "kleenex" or "tupperware." A generic term.

Ironic, because at Xerox we were always warned not to use "xerox" as a verb.

On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 5:54?PM Barbara Denny via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

>  This reminds me of when I first learned about Industrial Ethernet.  It
> took me a little bit of time to realize that the ethernet in their
> environment wasn't the ethernet I was familiar with.
> barbara
>     On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 05:00:19 PM PDT, Lawrence Stewart via
> Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>  I don?t know what the networking technology of the future will be like,
> but it will be called Ethernet.*
>
> *unknown
>
>
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>


From j at shoch.com  Thu Aug 22 12:10:46 2024
From: j at shoch.com (John Shoch)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:10:46 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
Message-ID: <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>

John Levine wrote:

"It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same."

In retrospect, the most important and enduring aspect of the DIX Ethernet
spec (now evolved through multiple generations of design over multiple
decades) was the packet format.

At Xerox we learned a lot from the1st generation implementation and
operation of the Experimental Ethernet (2.94 Mbps) and the Pup internet
architecture -- a combination which had well-matched but small address
fields.

James Carville advised Bill Clinton that, "It's the economy, stupid!"
I often observe, "it's the addressing, dummy!"

While the first generation worked well, with thousands of machines and
dozens of networks, it became clear it would not continue to scale.  It
required a much broader view of addressing, which led to the audacious idea
of 48-bit absolute addresses --- that's what allowed the 2nd generation DIX
Etherent and XNS internet to scale together.

The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680

John Shoch

PS:  If you read the paper, you will see that the 48-bit absolute addresses
were intended for and implemented on both  the DIX Ethernet and as part of
XNS internet architecture -- a well crafted "impedance match."  (Other
people will have a much more informed view on the later, continuing
migration from IPv4 to IPv6.....)

>
> Message: 4
> Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
> From: "John Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>
> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
> Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0 at ary.lan>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
> >BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a. RFC
> 826) says:
> >
> >"This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
> >10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
> >for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
> >directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."
>
> It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.
>
> The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
> it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.
>
> R's,
> John
>
>


From sghuter at nsrc.org  Thu Aug 22 12:18:48 2024
From: sghuter at nsrc.org (Steven G. Huter)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 12:18:48 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1464496f-3ebf-4cbf-a9a2-a4321beadac2@nsrc.org>


On 8/22/24 12:10 PM, John Shoch via Internet-history wrote:
>
> The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680
>
Thank you for this, John.

Steve



From jeanjour at comcast.net  Thu Aug 22 12:18:55 2024
From: jeanjour at comcast.net (John Day)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 15:18:55 -0400
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A65ED89-CD6C-4F41-B9EB-FF225AB981D6@comcast.net>

Thanks, John. I was going to point David Dib at that paper, but it is much better that you did it.

And I totally agree with you, ?It?s the addressing, dummy!? ;-)

Take care,
John

> On Aug 22, 2024, at 15:10, John Shoch via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> John Levine wrote:
> 
> "It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same."
> 
> In retrospect, the most important and enduring aspect of the DIX Ethernet
> spec (now evolved through multiple generations of design over multiple
> decades) was the packet format.
> 
> At Xerox we learned a lot from the1st generation implementation and
> operation of the Experimental Ethernet (2.94 Mbps) and the Pup internet
> architecture -- a combination which had well-matched but small address
> fields.
> 
> James Carville advised Bill Clinton that, "It's the economy, stupid!"
> I often observe, "it's the addressing, dummy!"
> 
> While the first generation worked well, with thousands of machines and
> dozens of networks, it became clear it would not continue to scale.  It
> required a much broader view of addressing, which led to the audacious idea
> of 48-bit absolute addresses --- that's what allowed the 2nd generation DIX
> Etherent and XNS internet to scale together.
> 
> The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680
> 
> John Shoch
> 
> PS:  If you read the paper, you will see that the 48-bit absolute addresses
> were intended for and implemented on both  the DIX Ethernet and as part of
> XNS internet architecture -- a well crafted "impedance match."  (Other
> people will have a much more informed view on the later, continuing
> migration from IPv4 to IPv6.....)
> 
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
>> From: "John Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>
>> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> Subject: Re: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
>> Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0 at ary.lan>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
>> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
>>> BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a. RFC
>> 826) says:
>>> 
>>> "This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
>>> 10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
>>> for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
>>> directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."
>> 
>> It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
>> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
>> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.
>> 
>> The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
>> it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.
>> 
>> R's,
>> John
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history



From craig at tereschau.net  Thu Aug 22 13:33:25 2024
From: craig at tereschau.net (Craig Partridge)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 14:33:25 -0600
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHQj4CdUQuG_u_htA=p6FJrr8Pu+rbNRB1L=YCtSy2KWa-gQrA@mail.gmail.com>

Acknowledging that John S had a better viewpoint as things happened (I
showed up in the later part of the Ethernet vs. token ring vs. token bus
[Ungermann Bass?] debates), I think Ethernet did four things right and then
benefitted from one wonderful invention.

The four right things were:

   - big enough addresses (not obvious at the time, witness IPv4's too
   small).
   - media access rules that were contention based and worked for both
   wired and wireless (again, not obvious, but paved the way for Ethernet
   framing to work on WiFi)
   - big enough error check -- CRC32 is amazing and has lasted even as
   error patterns have evolved dramatically (may just be showing its age, but
   only just)
   - media access rules that allowed the channel to be filled. &ou can
   transmit at 9.X megabits on a 10 megabit Ethernet - a point Dave Boggs made
   with great vigor in his SIGCOMM '88 talk, in response to the folks who had
   claimed Ethernet could only operate at 1/e capacity (so no one pushed for a
   "more efficient" protocol)

The wonderful invention was the learning bridge, which made it possible to
stick Ethernet's together without hand configuration.  Probably our first
great case of autoconfiguring network deployments and all kudos to Radia
for making it happen.

Craig

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 1:11?PM John Shoch via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> John Levine wrote:
>
> "It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same."
>
> In retrospect, the most important and enduring aspect of the DIX Ethernet
> spec (now evolved through multiple generations of design over multiple
> decades) was the packet format.
>
> At Xerox we learned a lot from the1st generation implementation and
> operation of the Experimental Ethernet (2.94 Mbps) and the Pup internet
> architecture -- a combination which had well-matched but small address
> fields.
>
> James Carville advised Bill Clinton that, "It's the economy, stupid!"
> I often observe, "it's the addressing, dummy!"
>
> While the first generation worked well, with thousands of machines and
> dozens of networks, it became clear it would not continue to scale.  It
> required a much broader view of addressing, which led to the audacious idea
> of 48-bit absolute addresses --- that's what allowed the 2nd generation DIX
> Etherent and XNS internet to scale together.
>
> The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
>
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680
>
> John Shoch
>
> PS:  If you read the paper, you will see that the 48-bit absolute addresses
> were intended for and implemented on both  the DIX Ethernet and as part of
> XNS internet architecture -- a well crafted "impedance match."  (Other
> people will have a much more informed view on the later, continuing
> migration from IPv4 to IPv6.....)
>
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
> > From: "John Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>
> > To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > Subject: Re: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
> > Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0 at ary.lan>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
> > brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
> > >BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a.
> RFC
> > 826) says:
> > >
> > >"This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
> > >10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
> > >for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
> > >directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."
> >
> > It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> > logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> > though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.
> >
> > The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
> > it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.
> >
> > R's,
> > John
> >
> >
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>


-- 
*****
Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities and
mailing lists.


From dhc at dcrocker.net  Thu Aug 22 13:38:03 2024
From: dhc at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 13:38:03 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAHQj4CdUQuG_u_htA=p6FJrr8Pu+rbNRB1L=YCtSy2KWa-gQrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHQj4CdUQuG_u_htA=p6FJrr8Pu+rbNRB1L=YCtSy2KWa-gQrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fdfb93c-31d8-4df7-a1c0-ac94210796fb@dcrocker.net>

On 8/22/2024 1:33 PM, Craig Partridge via Internet-history wrote:
>     - media access rules that allowed the channel to be filled. &ou can
>     transmit at 9.X megabits on a 10 megabit Ethernet -


Carrier sense and collision detect were, of course, excellent features.? 
But retry with randomized, exponential backoff seems to have been a 
profoundly useful innovation.


d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
mast:@dcrocker at mastodon.social


From pugs78 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 22 15:40:31 2024
From: pugs78 at gmail.com (Tom Lyon)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 15:40:31 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <6A65ED89-CD6C-4F41-B9EB-FF225AB981D6@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6A65ED89-CD6C-4F41-B9EB-FF225AB981D6@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CANxB0bSw78xXj=kx3yyKeaRCmkMEiZWQHkKYUkNL9NGX2kQH=w@mail.gmail.com>

I have a blog article about the transition from 48 bit *station*
addresses to 48 bit *MAC* address and how it made people hate me and SunOS:
https://akapugs.blog/2020/02/12/676/

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 12:19?PM John Day via Internet-history <
internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> Thanks, John. I was going to point David Dib at that paper, but it is much
> better that you did it.
>
> And I totally agree with you, ?It?s the addressing, dummy!? ;-)
>
> Take care,
> John
>
> > On Aug 22, 2024, at 15:10, John Shoch via Internet-history <
> internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> >
> > John Levine wrote:
> >
> > "It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> > logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> > though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same."
> >
> > In retrospect, the most important and enduring aspect of the DIX Ethernet
> > spec (now evolved through multiple generations of design over multiple
> > decades) was the packet format.
> >
> > At Xerox we learned a lot from the1st generation implementation and
> > operation of the Experimental Ethernet (2.94 Mbps) and the Pup internet
> > architecture -- a combination which had well-matched but small address
> > fields.
> >
> > James Carville advised Bill Clinton that, "It's the economy, stupid!"
> > I often observe, "it's the addressing, dummy!"
> >
> > While the first generation worked well, with thousands of machines and
> > dozens of networks, it became clear it would not continue to scale.  It
> > required a much broader view of addressing, which led to the audacious
> idea
> > of 48-bit absolute addresses --- that's what allowed the 2nd generation
> DIX
> > Etherent and XNS internet to scale together.
> >
> > The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
> >
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
> > https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680
> >
> > John Shoch
> >
> > PS:  If you read the paper, you will see that the 48-bit absolute
> addresses
> > were intended for and implemented on both  the DIX Ethernet and as part
> of
> > XNS internet architecture -- a well crafted "impedance match."  (Other
> > people will have a much more informed view on the later, continuing
> > migration from IPv4 to IPv6.....)
> >
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
> >> From: "John Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>
> >> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> >> Subject: Re: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
> >> Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0 at ary.lan>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >> It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
> >> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
> >>> BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a.
> RFC
> >> 826) says:
> >>>
> >>> "This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
> >>> 10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
> >>> for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
> >>> directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."
> >>
> >> It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> >> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> >> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.
> >>
> >> The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
> >> it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.
> >>
> >> R's,
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > Internet-history mailing list
> > Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Thu Aug 22 15:41:42 2024
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 18:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
Message-ID: <20240822224142.F07D918C080@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: John Levine

    > It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
    > logical formats

In my IEEE personal memoir, "Early Token Ring Work at MIT":

  https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6828547

I observed that interfaces live forever, during which time the stuff on either
side of the interface usually changes out of all recognition. The example I
used was the screw base for light bulbs: they now connect nuclear power plants
to LED bulbs - neither of which was even _envisioned_ at the time the
interface was designed!

That is now true of packet formats; for networks (as here), and also for
internet-level protocols, too. I observed in something I wrote for IPng that
IP packet formats are used for two things: the host<->first hop router
interface, and the router<->router interface. I said this allowed us to
change the second (to provide enhanced functionality) without changing the
first.

	Noel


From karl at iwl.com  Thu Aug 22 16:56:26 2024
From: karl at iwl.com (Karl Auerbach)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 16:56:26 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8732f246-d6a2-4030-b40a-59b72a25171b@iwl.com>

I was at the ACM Sigcomm event in Mexico City when Y. Dalal mentioned 
48-bit addresses.  I remember the murmur of surprise that swept over the 
audience.

	--karl--

On 8/22/24 12:10 PM, John Shoch via Internet-history wrote:
> John Levine wrote:
> 
> "It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same."
> 
> In retrospect, the most important and enduring aspect of the DIX Ethernet
> spec (now evolved through multiple generations of design over multiple
> decades) was the packet format.
> 
> At Xerox we learned a lot from the1st generation implementation and
> operation of the Experimental Ethernet (2.94 Mbps) and the Pup internet
> architecture -- a combination which had well-matched but small address
> fields.
> 
> James Carville advised Bill Clinton that, "It's the economy, stupid!"
> I often observe, "it's the addressing, dummy!"
> 
> While the first generation worked well, with thousands of machines and
> dozens of networks, it became clear it would not continue to scale.  It
> required a much broader view of addressing, which led to the audacious idea
> of 48-bit absolute addresses --- that's what allowed the 2nd generation DIX
> Etherent and XNS internet to scale together.
> 
> The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680
> 
> John Shoch
> 
> PS:  If you read the paper, you will see that the 48-bit absolute addresses
> were intended for and implemented on both  the DIX Ethernet and as part of
> XNS internet architecture -- a well crafted "impedance match."  (Other
> people will have a much more informed view on the later, continuing
> migration from IPv4 to IPv6.....)
> 
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
>> From: "John Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>
>> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>> Subject: Re: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
>> Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0 at ary.lan>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
>> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
>>> BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a. RFC
>> 826) says:
>>>
>>> "This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
>>> 10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
>>> for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
>>> directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."
>>
>> It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
>> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
>> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.
>>
>> The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
>> it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.
>>
>> R's,
>> John
>>
>>



From jeanjour at comcast.net  Thu Aug 22 17:35:58 2024
From: jeanjour at comcast.net (John Day)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 20:35:58 -0400
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <8732f246-d6a2-4030-b40a-59b72a25171b@iwl.com>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8732f246-d6a2-4030-b40a-59b72a25171b@iwl.com>
Message-ID: <22BC9B5D-7539-49CA-85D9-EE4E1512AF2C@comcast.net>

They were still station ?addresses?. Yogen says in the article that they were device-ids. It was obvious when I first saw them that 48-bits assigned at the factory that the main reason was to make it easy to attach to the network.

Ethernet was never about data com but about distributed computing, and at those speeds they didn?t need to stingy with the bits in the header. (That was a general attitude at the time among that set of people, i.e., going way beyond what was normal or could be done easily knowing the hardware would catch up.

Totally different, but did you ever see how Englebart?s NLS *really* worked?  ;-)

> On Aug 22, 2024, at 19:56, Karl Auerbach via Internet-history <internet-history at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> 
> I was at the ACM Sigcomm event in Mexico City when Y. Dalal mentioned 48-bit addresses.  I remember the murmur of surprise that swept over the audience.
> 
> 	--karl--
> 
> On 8/22/24 12:10 PM, John Shoch via Internet-history wrote:
>> John Levine wrote:
>> "It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
>> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
>> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same."
>> In retrospect, the most important and enduring aspect of the DIX Ethernet
>> spec (now evolved through multiple generations of design over multiple
>> decades) was the packet format.
>> At Xerox we learned a lot from the1st generation implementation and
>> operation of the Experimental Ethernet (2.94 Mbps) and the Pup internet
>> architecture -- a combination which had well-matched but small address
>> fields.
>> James Carville advised Bill Clinton that, "It's the economy, stupid!"
>> I often observe, "it's the addressing, dummy!"
>> While the first generation worked well, with thousands of machines and
>> dozens of networks, it became clear it would not continue to scale.  It
>> required a much broader view of addressing, which led to the audacious idea
>> of 48-bit absolute addresses --- that's what allowed the 2nd generation DIX
>> Etherent and XNS internet to scale together.
>> The person we should thank for that is Yogen Dalal:
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/xerox/parc/techReports/OPD-T8101_48-Bit_Absolute_Internet_and_Ethernet_Host_Numbers.pdf
>> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/800081.802680
>> John Shoch
>> PS:  If you read the paper, you will see that the 48-bit absolute addresses
>> were intended for and implemented on both  the DIX Ethernet and as part of
>> XNS internet architecture -- a well crafted "impedance match."  (Other
>> people will have a much more informed view on the later, continuing
>> migration from IPv4 to IPv6.....)
>>> 
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: 21 Aug 2024 18:06:47 -0400
>>> From: "John Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>
>>> To: internet-history at elists.isoc.org
>>> Subject: Re: [ih] "This is the History of Ethernet."
>>> Message-ID: <20240821220647.6AD3392357F0 at ary.lan>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>> 
>>> It appears that Brian E Carpenter via Internet-history <
>>> brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> said:
>>>> BTW, it's worth noting that the *current* IETF STD 37 for ARP (a.k.a. RFC
>>> 826) says:
>>>> 
>>>> "This protocol was originally designed for the DEC/Intel/Xerox
>>>> 10Mbit Ethernet.  It has been generalized to allow it to be used
>>>> for other types of networks.  Much of the discussion will be
>>>> directed toward the 10Mbit Ethernet."
>>> 
>>> It's quite impressive that forty years later Ethernet has the same
>>> logical formats as the Ethernet that ran on thick yellow coax, even
>>> though at the hardware level practically nothing is the same.
>>> 
>>> The Ethernets in my house are all gigabit twisted pair, and if I upgrade
>>> it'll likely be to 10G fiber.  But ARP still works.
>>> 
>>> R's,
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history at elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history



From als at thangorodrim.ch  Fri Aug 23 03:38:22 2024
From: als at thangorodrim.ch (Alexander Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 12:38:22 +0200
Subject: [ih] Internet-history Digest, Vol 57, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <6fdfb93c-31d8-4df7-a1c0-ac94210796fb@dcrocker.net>
References: <mailman.186.1724281650.13002.internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
 <CAFrK2dhty1AGXGUqtPCjVUo851D1vERVBGY5gn6XKrEaZxsKsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHQj4CdUQuG_u_htA=p6FJrr8Pu+rbNRB1L=YCtSy2KWa-gQrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <6fdfb93c-31d8-4df7-a1c0-ac94210796fb@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <ZshmnrF1UjmYJdv6@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de>

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024 at 01:38:03PM -0700, Dave Crocker via Internet-history wrote:
> On 8/22/2024 1:33 PM, Craig Partridge via Internet-history wrote:
> >     - media access rules that allowed the channel to be filled. &ou can
> >     transmit at 9.X megabits on a 10 megabit Ethernet -
> 
> 
> Carrier sense and collision detect were, of course, excellent features.? But
> retry with randomized, exponential backoff seems to have been a profoundly
> useful innovation.

And it still is, for many use cases outside of Ethernet, e.g. for retry
on RPC services during high load scenarios.

Kind regards,
           Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."                                      -- Thomas A. Edison


From lpress at csudh.edu  Fri Aug 23 10:21:51 2024
From: lpress at csudh.edu (Larry Press)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 17:21:51 +0000
Subject: [ih] Russian Internet pioneer Alexey Soldatov sentenced to two
 years in prison
Message-ID: <BYAPR03MB3863B1025B2574B630294902C28F2@BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Last month, Russian Internet pioneer Alexey Soldatov was sentenced to two years in a labor colony on charges of ?abuse of power.?
...

Given the uncertainties mentioned above, the government?s track record, Soldatov?s contributions to society, and the fact that the IP address transfer never took place, he has been under house arrest awaiting trial and is in ill health, this prison sentence is politically motivated and morally unjustified.

https://circleid.com/posts/20240821-russian-internet-pioneer-sentenced-to-two-years-in-prison

Do any of you know Alexey Soldatov?


From julf at Julf.com  Fri Aug 23 10:29:51 2024
From: julf at Julf.com (Johan Helsingius)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 19:29:51 +0200
Subject: [ih] Russian Internet pioneer Alexey Soldatov sentenced to two
 years in prison
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR03MB3863B1025B2574B630294902C28F2@BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR03MB3863B1025B2574B630294902C28F2@BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5ba322bc-f1b8-4686-9509-3d4b5d9897eb@Julf.com>

On 23/08/2024 19:21, Larry Press via Internet-history wrote:
> Do any of you know Alexey Soldatov?

As I wrote earlier, I was on the Finnish side of the RELCOM Moscow-
Helsinki connection.

	Julf