From jack at 3kitty.org  Sun Sep 23 10:12:55 2018
From: jack at 3kitty.org (Jack Haverty)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 10:12:55 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
Message-ID: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>

In a recent basement archeological expedition, I unearthed a "group
photo" taken at the Internet meeting held on Catalina Island,
California.  It occurred in the early days of the Internet, but my
Google searching hasn't turned up any references to that meeting.  But
apparently I took this picture:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WkKhvc7VAx4FEGKu7

This was taken at the mansion on top of the mountain overlooking the
harbor - you can see the harbor on the right.  Jon Postel arranged for
us to use the Wrigley mansion, which was somehow related to USC-ISI.  I
still recall the trip in the ferry from LA, through dense fog until
suddenly the Catalina dock appeared out of the gray just a hundred feet
away.

I remember most of the people.  Still a few I can't place.  From the
left: either Dick Watson or Dale McNeill, hard to tell, then Jim Forgie,
Jim Herman, Barry Leiner, Gil Falk, (someone I can't remember), Jon
Postel, Steve Kent, (someone I also can't remember, kneeling), Dave
Clark, Dave Mills, and Jack Haverty (me).  I probably took the picture
by setting the auto timer on my camera and then scurrying back to get in
line.  There were more people at the meeting so this must have been
whoever was available at the particular time.

Anybody have any idea when this meeting occurred?

I thought this picture might be of historical interest.  I haven't seen
many pictures from those days when we still did photos chemically and
didn't have ways to turn them into bits, networks that could convey them
or disk space to hold them.

/Jack Haverty


From vint at google.com  Sun Sep 23 14:49:27 2018
From: vint at google.com (Vint Cerf)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 17:49:27 -0400
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
References: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
Message-ID: <CAHxHggeUXVm2AJ+E1c6fNv734=5ifoWX0sd0Vjye+3SCPL4XOg@mail.gmail.com>

my guess is that this might have occurred between 1983 and 1987
since that was a period when I was focused on MCI Mail and not Internet.

L to R

UNK, Jim Forgie, Jim Herman, Barry Leiner, Gil Falk, UNK, Postel, Kent,
UNK kneeling, not Dave Clark [but maybe he will respond], Dave Mills, Jack
Haverty

v


v


On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Jack Haverty <jack at 3kitty.org> wrote:

> In a recent basement archeological expedition, I unearthed a "group
> photo" taken at the Internet meeting held on Catalina Island,
> California.  It occurred in the early days of the Internet, but my
> Google searching hasn't turned up any references to that meeting.  But
> apparently I took this picture:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/WkKhvc7VAx4FEGKu7
>
> This was taken at the mansion on top of the mountain overlooking the
> harbor - you can see the harbor on the right.  Jon Postel arranged for
> us to use the Wrigley mansion, which was somehow related to USC-ISI.  I
> still recall the trip in the ferry from LA, through dense fog until
> suddenly the Catalina dock appeared out of the gray just a hundred feet
> away.
>
> I remember most of the people.  Still a few I can't place.  From the
> left: either Dick Watson or Dale McNeill, hard to tell, then Jim Forgie,
> Jim Herman, Barry Leiner, Gil Falk, (someone I can't remember), Jon
> Postel, Steve Kent, (someone I also can't remember, kneeling), Dave
> Clark, Dave Mills, and Jack Haverty (me).  I probably took the picture
> by setting the auto timer on my camera and then scurrying back to get in
> line.  There were more people at the meeting so this must have been
> whoever was available at the particular time.
>
> Anybody have any idea when this meeting occurred?
>
> I thought this picture might be of historical interest.  I haven't seen
> many pictures from those days when we still did photos chemically and
> didn't have ways to turn them into bits, networks that could convey them
> or disk space to hold them.
>
> /Jack Haverty
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>



-- 
New postal address:
Google
1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor
Reston, VA 20190
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From casner at acm.org  Sun Sep 23 22:35:49 2018
From: casner at acm.org (Stephen Casner)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 22:35:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
References: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1809232233380.11734@auge.attlocal.net>

Jack,

I'm pretty sure the plaid shirt in the middle is Cliff Weinstein, cc'd
here.

                                                        -- Steve

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018, Jack Haverty wrote:

> In a recent basement archeological expedition, I unearthed a "group
> photo" taken at the Internet meeting held on Catalina Island,
> California.  It occurred in the early days of the Internet, but my
> Google searching hasn't turned up any references to that meeting.  But
> apparently I took this picture:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/WkKhvc7VAx4FEGKu7
>
> This was taken at the mansion on top of the mountain overlooking the
> harbor - you can see the harbor on the right.  Jon Postel arranged for
> us to use the Wrigley mansion, which was somehow related to USC-ISI.  I
> still recall the trip in the ferry from LA, through dense fog until
> suddenly the Catalina dock appeared out of the gray just a hundred feet
> away.
>
> I remember most of the people.  Still a few I can't place.  From the
> left: either Dick Watson or Dale McNeill, hard to tell, then Jim Forgie,
> Jim Herman, Barry Leiner, Gil Falk, (someone I can't remember), Jon
> Postel, Steve Kent, (someone I also can't remember, kneeling), Dave
> Clark, Dave Mills, and Jack Haverty (me).  I probably took the picture
> by setting the auto timer on my camera and then scurrying back to get in
> line.  There were more people at the meeting so this must have been
> whoever was available at the particular time.
>
> Anybody have any idea when this meeting occurred?
>
> I thought this picture might be of historical interest.  I haven't seen
> many pictures from those days when we still did photos chemically and
> didn't have ways to turn them into bits, networks that could convey them
> or disk space to hold them.
>
> /Jack Haverty
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Mon Sep 24 04:38:17 2018
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 07:38:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
Message-ID: <20180924113817.2434718C082@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Vint Cerf

    > my guess is that this might have occurred between 1983 and 1987 since
    > that was a period when I was focused on MCI Mail and not Internet.

I have a list of meetings gleaned from the minutes in the IEN series (which
are a _wonderful_ resource for historians of the early work, who all owe Jon
a tremendous debt for writing them all up), and they list the following
meetings at ISI early on:

Location	Date			IEN	Date Issued

ISI		15 August 1977		  3	18-Aug-77
ISI (UCLA?)	1 February 1978		 22	3-Feb-78
ISI!		30-31 January 1978	 67	8-Feb-78

So perhaps one of them? (Someone more energetic than me could
compare the attendee lists and see if one of them matches.)

Would there perhaps have been meetings before this that didn't get into the
IEN series? Also, could this possible date back to the INWG meetings? Looking
at the list of people in the photos, I would guess not (from what little I
know of the INWG).

It was definitely before the January 1979 meeting at ISI, because I was at
that one, and don't recall a Catalina trip! :-)

	Noel


From jack at 3kitty.org  Mon Sep 24 09:43:06 2018
From: jack at 3kitty.org (Jack Haverty)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 09:43:06 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <20180924113817.2434718C082@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20180924113817.2434718C082@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <0a2971aa-10a1-09c5-18e0-e7a7f3e697aa@3kitty.org>

My electronic records are long gone.  However, paper apparently survives
longer than bits.   So more basement archeology.  I skimmed through my
old notebooks from 1977-1980 looking for "Catalina".  No joy.

I think Vint is at least partially right.  I'm now 99% sure that
Catalina meeting happened in January 1983.  I got several private
responses to my original message, including one from Cliff Weinstein
confirming that he was there, and he remembers the meeting as being
something like a "Network Management Workshop".  Brad Fidler reports
that the Wrigley mansion is still there and in good shape, and currently
a wonderful place to have lunch.

The "smoking gun" though is the physical slide that I scanned.  The
photoshop printed "Jan" on the slide itself, and others from the same
box/roll have "83" stamped on.

So, late 1972, early 1983 makes sense.  It also would explain why Vint's
not in the picture, having gone off to MCI.  My recollection is that
Barry Leiner wasn't heavily involved in the Internet project per se
until Vint's departure from ARPA, which would also explain why Barry is
in the picture.

So, the meeting was circa January 1983, and the "unknown" between Falk
and Postel is Cliff Weinstein.  (Sorry Cliff, I did remember you but
couldn't pull the name from long-term storage).

But I disagree with Vint -- that still looks like Dave Clark to me.  Who
else might it be...?   Still not sure who is kneeling either.  Was that
one of the ISI team..?

/Jack Haverty


On 09/24/2018 04:38 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>     > From: Vint Cerf
> 
>     > my guess is that this might have occurred between 1983 and 1987 since
>     > that was a period when I was focused on MCI Mail and not Internet.
> 
> I have a list of meetings gleaned from the minutes in the IEN series (which
> are a _wonderful_ resource for historians of the early work, who all owe Jon
> a tremendous debt for writing them all up), and they list the following
> meetings at ISI early on:
> 
> Location	Date			IEN	Date Issued
> 
> ISI		15 August 1977		  3	18-Aug-77
> ISI (UCLA?)	1 February 1978		 22	3-Feb-78
> ISI!		30-31 January 1978	 67	8-Feb-78
> 
> So perhaps one of them? (Someone more energetic than me could
> compare the attendee lists and see if one of them matches.)
> 
> Would there perhaps have been meetings before this that didn't get into the
> IEN series? Also, could this possible date back to the INWG meetings? Looking
> at the list of people in the photos, I would guess not (from what little I
> know of the INWG).
> 
> It was definitely before the January 1979 meeting at ISI, because I was at
> that one, and don't recall a Catalina trip! :-)
> 
> 	Noel
> 


From jack at 3kitty.org  Mon Sep 24 10:40:55 2018
From: jack at 3kitty.org (Jack Haverty)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:40:55 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <0a2971aa-10a1-09c5-18e0-e7a7f3e697aa@3kitty.org>
References: <20180924113817.2434718C082@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
	<0a2971aa-10a1-09c5-18e0-e7a7f3e697aa@3kitty.org>
Message-ID: <6f2032f4-29b7-584b-e5b1-b73b0ce67bef@3kitty.org>

On 09/24/2018 09:43 AM, Jack Haverty wrote:
> Would there perhaps have been meetings before this that didn't get into the
> IEN series? 

Just to help the historians...  The IEN series is a wonderful resource,
but Jon's minutes only capture the meetings and projects where Jon was
personally involved.

There were *lots* of other meetings through the 70s and 80s.  Some were
within the general umbrella of the ARPA "Internet project", but focused
on a particular piece of it - e.g., Packet Radio, SATNET, WidebandNet,
Network Security, and even ARPANET.  Others focused on various
government(s) pilot projects to explore using TCP/IP - e.g., MATNET, and
a activities in a variety of non-ARPA activities, e.g., not only in US
military and other agencies, but also overseas places like RSRE in the UK.

There were even then significant projects in the commercial arena,
especially in the mid 80s and on, e.g., big, well-funded, projects in
places like Wall Street to use TCP/IP globally for their trading
mechanisms (the only time I ever saw a tractor-trailer full of Sun
workstations being delivered, and learned that it wasn't a unique or
even rare occurrence).

Lots of organizations had their own private little-I "internet" which
they used to learn how to use TCP/IP technology for their own purposes,
and how to build the missing mechanisms and processes needed for
operations that were generally not on Internet researchers' radar.

I personally participated in lots of those "other meetings" outside of
the ARPA/NSF arena, but there were many, many others that I wasn't
hooked into.  I'm sure lots of other people had similar experiences.

The aggregate of all that activity was what created The Internet.

Sadly, it seems that only Jon took the time to document such events.
Jon's writings are historically invaluable, but IMHO it's important to
remember that they only capture a small part of the story.

/Jack Haverty


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Mon Sep 24 12:40:56 2018
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 15:40:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
Message-ID: <20180924194056.DB8D118C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Jack Haverty

    > But I disagree with Vint - that still looks like Dave Clark to me.

Definitely Dave, I think.

    > Who else might it be...?

Looks a bit like Brian Carpenter, but he showed up much later.

    > Still not sure who is kneeling either.

Looks familiar, but I can't place him....


    >> Would there perhaps have been meetings before this that didn't get
    >> into the IEN series?

    > There were *lots* of other meetings through the 70s and 80s. Some were
    > within the general umbrella of the ARPA "Internet project"

I was thinking of the period before the ARPA TCP project got started; were
there any meetings of note in that period?

	Noel


From brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 14:02:48 2018
From: brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com (Brian E Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 09:02:48 +1200
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <20180924194056.DB8D118C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20180924194056.DB8D118C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <b0978e0a-8222-5f88-552a-d9eee9dc4bd4@gmail.com>

On 2018-09-25 07:40, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>     > From: Jack Haverty
> 
>     > But I disagree with Vint - that still looks like Dave Clark to me.
> 
> Definitely Dave, I think.
> 
>     > Who else might it be...?
> 
> Looks a bit like Brian Carpenter, but he showed up much later.

A flattering comparison, but sadly I have never in my life been
out to Catalina. I was actually in California at one point in 1983,
and seem to remember staying in a Holiday Inn on Pico Bvd in order
to visit an OSI implementer in Santa Monica and then a day trip up
to ACC in Santa Barbara to discuss FDDI stuff. It was a couple of years
later that we at CERN began to abandon the OSI dream and start seriously
with TCP/IP.

It occurs to me that I probably met Noel for the first time on that
same trip. We were wondering whether the future lay with FDDI or ProNet-80,
and I definitely visited Proteon. Unfortunately I don't seem to have a
copy of my 1983 trip report.

    Brian


From jack at 3kitty.org  Mon Sep 24 18:09:11 2018
From: jack at 3kitty.org (Jack Haverty)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 18:09:11 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <CAHxHggeUXVm2AJ+E1c6fNv734=5ifoWX0sd0Vjye+3SCPL4XOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
	<CAHxHggeUXVm2AJ+E1c6fNv734=5ifoWX0sd0Vjye+3SCPL4XOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a06b37d9-7dc6-f6ff-828e-d2f986662107@3kitty.org>

New data - Cliff Weinstein found his paper copy of the original emailed
invitation to a "DARPA Workshop on Network Management", issued by "Vint
Cerf and Barry leiner" in August 1982, for a 3-day workshop to be held
11-13 January 1983.  So I'm 99% convinced that's the meeting where the
picture was taken.

Cliff's copy of that email is attached with his permission (hope it gets
through...).

The "price of admission" was a "brief position statement reflecting your
view of important issues, methods, and results".

IIRC, I submitted something on the topic of "Automated Network
Management" which Bob Kahn subsequently funded as a project for the next
funding cycle.

I wonder if any of such material survives somewhere .... or if Jon or
anyone wrote up any minutes.

/Jack Haverty

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From amckenzie3 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 07:40:58 2018
From: amckenzie3 at yahoo.com (Alex McKenzie)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 14:40:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <20180924194056.DB8D118C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20180924194056.DB8D118C087@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <607899555.2165857.1537886458945@mail.yahoo.com>

 

    On Monday, September 24, 2018, 4:05:27 PM EDT, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:  

>I was thinking of the period before the ARPA TCP project got started; were
>there any meetings of note in that period?

>??? Noel

The first meeting of the International packet Network Working Group (INWG) was organized on the fly by Larry Roberts at the first International Computer Communications Conference (ICCC) in October 1972 in Washington DC.? There were several more INWG meetings over the next several years.? INWG developed a host-to-host protocol designed to work across a concatenated set of packet networks, each potentially based on different technologies.? The first TCP paper by Cerf and Kahn was presented at an INWG meeting and credited earlier INWG work as its basis (a credit Bob Kahn now repudiates as "just boilerplate").? A detailed description of INWG can be found online at INWG and the Conception of the Internet: An Eyewitness Account 


| 
| 
|  | 
INWG and the Conception of the Internet: An Eyewitness Account

? The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Incorporated (IEEE) Published in the IEEE Annals of the...
 |

 |

 |

or in print in  the IEEE Annals of the History of Computing, Vol 33, No 1, pp 66-71.
Cheers,Alex

  
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From jack at 3kitty.org  Tue Sep 25 10:49:52 2018
From: jack at 3kitty.org (Jack Haverty)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 10:49:52 -0700
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <a06b37d9-7dc6-f6ff-828e-d2f986662107@3kitty.org>
References: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
	<CAHxHggeUXVm2AJ+E1c6fNv734=5ifoWX0sd0Vjye+3SCPL4XOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06b37d9-7dc6-f6ff-828e-d2f986662107@3kitty.org>
Message-ID: <7a8dfe96-160e-2855-5061-d7ded742ec50@3kitty.org>

More new data - courtesy again of Cliff Weinstein, who actually found
the Proceedings of that Workshop, scanned the document into bits and
sent them to me.  It's 40+ pages of interesting insight into the way we
were thinking back then, and the innards of the processes that might
have eventually led to IENs and "standards".  The discussion revolved
around the question of what it meant to "manage" The Internet and how to
do it.

The Proceedings are here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NQTqt6XRtVBFQLy26

It was interesting getting them online...  I've been trying to succumb
to the hype and explore what "cloud computing" is like today.

I discovered that email wouldn't work - this list won't accept anything
bigger than 400KB.  Emailing large files is anti-social anyway.  Can't
just launch large objects into the cloud that way.

So I figured I'd upload Cliff's PDF document into the cloud as I did
with that 1983 photo -- Just like I would have done back in the days of
the SRI-NIC et al.  Piece of cake, right...?

It was an interesting exercise.  I fired up Google Docs, as a plausible
cloudlet into which a historic document might reside.  No joy - after
much poking through menus and screens, I learned that Google Docs
doesn't support docs - at least not PDF docs, probably the most common
form of document I encounter.  Seems a bit strange..?  But that's how it is.

So I found a site that would convert my PDF document into PNG images -
40+ of them, one file per page, all collected in a zip file which I
downloaded to my desktop.  I guess PNG doesn't support multi-page
graphics either.

PNG images apparently aren't Docs either.  So I fired up Google Photos,
and learned that I couldn't upload a zip file, since that tried-and-true
format isn't supported either.   So I uploaded all the individual PNGs,
created an "album", and put them there.  The link above will take you there.

I have to admit that I'm a neophyte user of "The Cloud", still used to
FTPing, SRI-NIC, and all that ancient historical cloud technology by
which we shared documents 40+ years ago.

Maybe I could have used some other cloudlet - a Yahoo group, or
groups.io, or one of the gaggle of Social Media hotspots.  I didn't
explore those.

So maybe there's a better way?  If so, it wasn't obvious to this naive
Cloud user...  It seems after so many years it shouldn't be this hard.

Enjoy,
/Jack Haverty


On 09/24/2018 06:09 PM, Jack Haverty wrote:
> New data - Cliff Weinstein found his paper copy of the original emailed
> invitation to a "DARPA Workshop on Network Management", issued by "Vint
> Cerf and Barry leiner" in August 1982, for a 3-day workshop to be held
> 11-13 January 1983.  So I'm 99% convinced that's the meeting where the
> picture was taken.
> 
> Cliff's copy of that email is attached with his permission (hope it gets
> through...).
> 
> The "price of admission" was a "brief position statement reflecting your
> view of important issues, methods, and results".
> 
> IIRC, I submitted something on the topic of "Automated Network
> Management" which Bob Kahn subsequently funded as a project for the next
> funding cycle.
> 
> I wonder if any of such material survives somewhere .... or if Jon or
> anyone wrote up any minutes.
> 
> /Jack Haverty
> 


From steffen at sdaoden.eu  Tue Sep 25 11:40:17 2018
From: steffen at sdaoden.eu (Steffen Nurpmeso)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 20:40:17 +0200
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <7a8dfe96-160e-2855-5061-d7ded742ec50@3kitty.org>
References: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
	<CAHxHggeUXVm2AJ+E1c6fNv734=5ifoWX0sd0Vjye+3SCPL4XOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06b37d9-7dc6-f6ff-828e-d2f986662107@3kitty.org>
	<7a8dfe96-160e-2855-5061-d7ded742ec50@3kitty.org>
Message-ID: <20180925184017.78hxa%steffen@sdaoden.eu>

Jack Haverty wrote in <7a8dfe96-160e-2855-5061-d7ded742ec50 at 3kitty.org>:
 |More new data - courtesy again of Cliff Weinstein, who actually found
 |the Proceedings of that Workshop, scanned the document into bits and
 |sent them to me.  It's 40+ pages of interesting insight into the way we
 |were thinking back then, and the innards of the processes that might
 |have eventually led to IENs and "standards".  The discussion revolved
 |around the question of what it meant to "manage" The Internet and how to
 |do it.
 |
 |The Proceedings are here:
 ...
 |I discovered that email wouldn't work - this list won't accept anything
 |bigger than 400KB.  Emailing large files is anti-social anyway.  Can't
 |just launch large objects into the cloud that way.
 |
 |So I figured I'd upload Cliff's PDF document into the cloud as I did
 |with that 1983 photo -- Just like I would have done back in the days of
 |the SRI-NIC et al.  Piece of cake, right...?
 |
 |It was an interesting exercise.  I fired up Google Docs, as a plausible
 ...
 |Maybe I could have used some other cloudlet - a Yahoo group, or
 |groups.io, or one of the gaggle of Social Media hotspots.  I didn't
 |explore those.
 |
 |So maybe there's a better way?  If so, it wasn't obvious to this naive
 |Cloud user...  It seems after so many years it shouldn't be this hard.

I used to have a dropbox.com account for this purpose.
The free version offers 2GB of space and much more.
(I used it only once or twice in the end, with a few snippets of
text data to be shared, now they auto-closed the account again
because it was stale.  All iirc.)

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)


From casner at acm.org  Tue Sep 25 12:08:38 2018
From: casner at acm.org (Stephen Casner)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
In-Reply-To: <7a8dfe96-160e-2855-5061-d7ded742ec50@3kitty.org>
References: <878ebe4e-d136-05d3-3ede-eafff29aad82@3kitty.org>
	<CAHxHggeUXVm2AJ+E1c6fNv734=5ifoWX0sd0Vjye+3SCPL4XOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a06b37d9-7dc6-f6ff-828e-d2f986662107@3kitty.org>
	<7a8dfe96-160e-2855-5061-d7ded742ec50@3kitty.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.21.1809251200190.13557@auge.attlocal.net>

Since Cliff's distribution of the 14MB PDF document via email came to
me as well, I've put it on my personal web server for those who would
like to pick up the document in a more convenient form.  I don't
promise to keep it there indefinitely.

http://casners.us/ProceedingsNetworkManagementWorkshop_DARPA_9-11Jan1983_CatalinIslandMtIda.pdf

The other item there that might be of interest to some on this list is
the MPEG digitization of the movie we made at ISI in 1978 about packet
voice conferencing.  This movie is also on YouTube.

http://casners.us/dv.mpg

                                                        -- Steve

On Tue, 25 Sep 2018, Jack Haverty wrote:

> More new data - courtesy again of Cliff Weinstein, who actually found
> the Proceedings of that Workshop, scanned the document into bits and
> sent them to me.  It's 40+ pages of interesting insight into the way we
> were thinking back then, and the innards of the processes that might
> have eventually led to IENs and "standards".  The discussion revolved
> around the question of what it meant to "manage" The Internet and how to
> do it.
>
> The Proceedings are here:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/NQTqt6XRtVBFQLy26
>
> It was interesting getting them online...  I've been trying to succumb
> to the hype and explore what "cloud computing" is like today.
>
> I discovered that email wouldn't work - this list won't accept anything
> bigger than 400KB.  Emailing large files is anti-social anyway.  Can't
> just launch large objects into the cloud that way.
>
> So I figured I'd upload Cliff's PDF document into the cloud as I did
> with that 1983 photo -- Just like I would have done back in the days of
> the SRI-NIC et al.  Piece of cake, right...?
>
> It was an interesting exercise.  I fired up Google Docs, as a plausible
> cloudlet into which a historic document might reside.  No joy - after
> much poking through menus and screens, I learned that Google Docs
> doesn't support docs - at least not PDF docs, probably the most common
> form of document I encounter.  Seems a bit strange..?  But that's how it is.
>
> So I found a site that would convert my PDF document into PNG images -
> 40+ of them, one file per page, all collected in a zip file which I
> downloaded to my desktop.  I guess PNG doesn't support multi-page
> graphics either.
>
> PNG images apparently aren't Docs either.  So I fired up Google Photos,
> and learned that I couldn't upload a zip file, since that tried-and-true
> format isn't supported either.   So I uploaded all the individual PNGs,
> created an "album", and put them there.  The link above will take you there.
>
> I have to admit that I'm a neophyte user of "The Cloud", still used to
> FTPing, SRI-NIC, and all that ancient historical cloud technology by
> which we shared documents 40+ years ago.
>
> Maybe I could have used some other cloudlet - a Yahoo group, or
> groups.io, or one of the gaggle of Social Media hotspots.  I didn't
> explore those.
>
> So maybe there's a better way?  If so, it wasn't obvious to this naive
> Cloud user...  It seems after so many years it shouldn't be this hard.
>
> Enjoy,
> /Jack Haverty
>
>
> On 09/24/2018 06:09 PM, Jack Haverty wrote:
> > New data - Cliff Weinstein found his paper copy of the original emailed
> > invitation to a "DARPA Workshop on Network Management", issued by "Vint
> > Cerf and Barry leiner" in August 1982, for a 3-day workshop to be held
> > 11-13 January 1983.  So I'm 99% convinced that's the meeting where the
> > picture was taken.
> >
> > Cliff's copy of that email is attached with his permission (hope it gets
> > through...).
> >
> > The "price of admission" was a "brief position statement reflecting your
> > view of important issues, methods, and results".
> >
> > IIRC, I submitted something on the topic of "Automated Network
> > Management" which Bob Kahn subsequently funded as a project for the next
> > funding cycle.
> >
> > I wonder if any of such material survives somewhere .... or if Jon or
> > anyone wrote up any minutes.
> >
> > /Jack Haverty
> >
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>
>


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Tue Sep 25 12:10:30 2018
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 15:10:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
Message-ID: <20180925191030.C0EB318C08D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

    > From: Jack Haverty
    > The Proceedings are here:

Also here:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/history/ManagementWorkshop_DARPA_11Jan1983.pdf

as a single PDF.


Also, I see Dave Clark listed as a presenter.

      Noel


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Tue Sep 25 16:21:34 2018
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:21:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ih] Internet meeting - Catalina Island, California, circa 1980?
Message-ID: <20180925232134.E867718C08D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

And the slides:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/history/ManagementWorkshop_DARPA_11Jan1983_Slides1.pdf
  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/history/ManagementWorkshop_DARPA_11Jan1983_Slides2.pdf

	Noel


From jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu  Sat Sep 29 07:12:30 2018
From: jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:12:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
Message-ID: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>


Dear Science News editors:

I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
matters make the same mistake.

Let me explain.

An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)

The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
one with the capital?)

There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)

The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
distinction.

Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.

So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
_the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.

      Noel


From AMaitland at Commerco.Com  Sat Sep 29 09:30:43 2018
From: AMaitland at Commerco.Com (Alan Maitland)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 10:30:43 -0600
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
In-Reply-To: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <d4dade6d-12bd-0360-b641-a4f9fec4220d@Commerco.Com>

+1

On 9/29/2018 8:12 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> 
> Dear Science News editors:
> 
> I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
> you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
> to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
> publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
> matters make the same mistake.
> 
> Let me explain.
> 
> An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
> collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
> network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
> switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
> have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)
> 
> The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
> have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
> one with the capital?)
> 
> There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
> Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
> different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)
> 
> The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
> the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
> discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
> technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
> distinction.
> 
> Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
> important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.
> 
> So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
> _the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.
> 
>        Noel
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
> 
> 



From touch at strayalpha.com  Sat Sep 29 09:53:02 2018
From: touch at strayalpha.com (Joe Touch)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 09:53:02 -0700
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
In-Reply-To: <d4dade6d-12bd-0360-b641-a4f9fec4220d@Commerco.Com>
References: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
	<d4dade6d-12bd-0360-b641-a4f9fec4220d@Commerco.Com>
Message-ID: <83FB9008-B7D0-4357-81EB-67A7B13211E4@strayalpha.com>

The AP and New York Times need educating on this issue too.

At least one key issue, IMO, is that both variants have distinct meaning.

Joe

> On Sep 29, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Alan Maitland <AMaitland at Commerco.Com> wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
>> On 9/29/2018 8:12 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Science News editors:
>> 
>> I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
>> you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
>> to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
>> publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
>> matters make the same mistake.
>> 
>> Let me explain.
>> 
>> An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
>> collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
>> network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
>> switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
>> have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)
>> 
>> The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
>> have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
>> one with the capital?)
>> 
>> There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
>> Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
>> different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)
>> 
>> The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
>> the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
>> discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
>> technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
>> distinction.
>> 
>> Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
>> important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.
>> 
>> So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
>> _the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.
>> 
>>       Noel
>> _______
>> internet-history mailing list
>> internet-history at postel.org
>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.




From mfidelman at meetinghouse.net  Sat Sep 29 13:49:05 2018
From: mfidelman at meetinghouse.net (Miles Fidelman)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:49:05 -0400
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
In-Reply-To: <d4dade6d-12bd-0360-b641-a4f9fec4220d@Commerco.Com>
References: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
	<d4dade6d-12bd-0360-b641-a4f9fec4220d@Commerco.Com>
Message-ID: <694d479e-72dc-c1a8-484e-c6b144ffe8ce@meetinghouse.net>

I remember those conversations too.

+1


On 9/29/18 12:30 PM, Alan Maitland wrote:
> +1
>
> On 9/29/2018 8:12 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> Dear Science News editors:
>>
>> I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
>> you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
>> to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
>> publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
>> matters make the same mistake.
>>
>> Let me explain.
>>
>> An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
>> collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
>> network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
>> switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
>> have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)
>>
>> The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
>> have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
>> one with the capital?)
>>
>> There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
>> Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
>> different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)
>>
>> The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
>> the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
>> discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
>> technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
>> distinction.
>>
>> Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
>> important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.
>>
>> So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
>> _the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.
>>
>>         Noel
>> _______
>> internet-history mailing list
>> internet-history at postel.org
>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>>
>>
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra



From brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 14:47:00 2018
From: brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com (Brian E Carpenter)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:47:00 +1300
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
In-Reply-To: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
References: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <ec8a84c1-077f-7380-1454-ab34280a31cb@gmail.com>

Dear Noel,

(Cc:s intentionally intact)

I think you should have addressed your letter to "Dear science news editors".
Clearly, if the Internet doesn't need to be capitalised, neither does
"Science News". For that matter, you could write a similar letter to the
editor of the economist, or of the times.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 2018-09-30 03:12, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> 
> Dear Science News editors:
> 
> I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
> you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
> to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
> publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
> matters make the same mistake.
> 
> Let me explain.
> 
> An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
> collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
> network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
> switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
> have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)
> 
> The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
> have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
> one with the capital?)
> 
> There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
> Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
> different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)
> 
> The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
> the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
> discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
> technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
> distinction.
> 
> Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
> important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.
> 
> So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
> _the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.
> 
>       Noel
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
> .
> 


From richard at bennett.com  Sat Sep 29 15:02:21 2018
From: richard at bennett.com (Richard Bennett)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:02:21 -0600
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
In-Reply-To: <ec8a84c1-077f-7380-1454-ab34280a31cb@gmail.com>
References: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
	<ec8a84c1-077f-7380-1454-ab34280a31cb@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72173E88-5411-4E02-BFCF-D4EE7C70581C@bennett.com>

Cute. I remind the offenders of this rule:

Although capitalization rules can be a bit tricky, rules for capitalizing proper nouns <http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/Types-of-Nouns.html> are pretty straightforward. First, though, it's important to understand the difference between common nouns and proper nouns.

Common nouns are the general names of people, places, and things. These types of nouns are usually not capitalized (unless they begin a sentence or are part of a title).
Proper nouns are the names of a specific person, place, or thing. The basic capitalization rule of proper nouns is that the first letters are capitalized.
http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/capitalization/rules-for-capitalizing-proper-nouns.html <http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/capitalization/rules-for-capitalizing-proper-nouns.html>

RB

> On Sep 29, 2018, at 3:47 PM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Noel,
> 
> (Cc:s intentionally intact)
> 
> I think you should have addressed your letter to "Dear science news editors".
> Clearly, if the Internet doesn't need to be capitalised, neither does
> "Science News". For that matter, you could write a similar letter to the
> editor of the economist, or of the times.
> 
> Regards
>   Brian Carpenter
> 
> On 2018-09-30 03:12, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Science News editors:
>> 
>> I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
>> you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
>> to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
>> publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
>> matters make the same mistake.
>> 
>> Let me explain.
>> 
>> An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
>> collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
>> network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
>> switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
>> have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)
>> 
>> The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
>> have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
>> one with the capital?)
>> 
>> There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
>> Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
>> different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)
>> 
>> The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
>> the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
>> discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
>> technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
>> distinction.
>> 
>> Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
>> important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.
>> 
>> So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
>> _the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.
>> 
>>      Noel
>> _______
>> internet-history mailing list
>> internet-history at postel.org
>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>> .
>> 
> _______
> internet-history mailing list
> internet-history at postel.org
> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.

?
Richard Bennett
High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator

Internet Policy Consultant

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From touch at strayalpha.com  Sun Sep 30 09:45:29 2018
From: touch at strayalpha.com (Joe Touch)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 09:45:29 -0700
Subject: [ih] 'Internet' vs 'internet'
In-Reply-To: <72173E88-5411-4E02-BFCF-D4EE7C70581C@bennett.com>
References: <20180929141230.45D8718C084@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
	<ec8a84c1-077f-7380-1454-ab34280a31cb@gmail.com>
	<72173E88-5411-4E02-BFCF-D4EE7C70581C@bennett.com>
Message-ID: <028115EA-CDF6-43A7-BDD6-378290C84462@strayalpha.com>

Rules like this fail for two reasons:
- disagreement over the rule itself (English in notorious for its exceptions)
- disagreement over how to apply the rule

Consider the cases of the ?moon? vs. ?the White House??

in some cases, capitalization has meaning:
"A White House painting? (i.e., an image constructed of paint displayed inside 1600 Pennsylvania Ave) is different from ?a white house painting? (e.g., the application of paint to a white house?.

in others, capitalization is not used but the definite vs. indefinite article or other cues provide context:
?The moon?s orbit? (of our moon) is different from ?a moon?s orbit? (e.g., of a moon around Mars), but that *requires use of a different article* to be clear.

For the (public) Internet:
	capitalization has meaning:
	?An Internet user? is different from ?an internet user?
but
	use of definite vs indefinite article doesn?t:
	?The internet was attacked? and ?an internet was attacked? both refer to what we would call ?intranets using the Internet protocols?, so use of a definite article doesn?t help.

The best argument I have been able to make is that both variants have different, established meanings. 

However, AFAICT, news outlets feel that the Internet is becoming positively lunar (looney? ;-)

Joe


> On Sep 29, 2018, at 3:02 PM, Richard Bennett <richard at bennett.com> wrote:
> 
> Cute. I remind the offenders of this rule:
> 
> Although capitalization rules can be a bit tricky, rules for capitalizing proper nouns <http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/parts-of-speech/nouns/Types-of-Nouns.html> are pretty straightforward. First, though, it's important to understand the difference between common nouns and proper nouns.
> 
> Common nouns are the general names of people, places, and things. These types of nouns are usually not capitalized (unless they begin a sentence or are part of a title).
> Proper nouns are the names of a specific person, place, or thing. The basic capitalization rule of proper nouns is that the first letters are capitalized.
> http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/capitalization/rules-for-capitalizing-proper-nouns.html <http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/capitalization/rules-for-capitalizing-proper-nouns.html>
> 
> RB
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2018, at 3:47 PM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Noel,
>> 
>> (Cc:s intentionally intact)
>> 
>> I think you should have addressed your letter to "Dear science news editors".
>> Clearly, if the Internet doesn't need to be capitalised, neither does
>> "Science News". For that matter, you could write a similar letter to the
>> editor of the economist, or of the times.
>> 
>> Regards
>>   Brian Carpenter
>> 
>> On 2018-09-30 03:12, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Science News editors:
>>> 
>>> I was extremely saddened to see, in the latest issue of 'Science News', that
>>> you all have apparently succumbed to the fashion of using 'internet' to refer
>>> to the Internet. While I expect to see this sort of error in general
>>> publications, it's most unfortunate to see a magazine focused on technical
>>> matters make the same mistake.
>>> 
>>> Let me explain.
>>> 
>>> An 'internet' is a generally, and widely, accepted technical term for a
>>> collection of disparate physical networks (fiber optic links, wireless
>>> network, Ethernets, etc) connected together with a particular type of packet
>>> switch, called 'routers'. (There are other kinds of packet switch, but they
>>> have mostly fallen into desuetude now.)
>>> 
>>> The 'Internet' is the massive internet to which most people of the world now
>>> have access. (See how that sentence doesn't make sense without distinguishing
>>> one with the capital?)
>>> 
>>> There are, however, still many other internets, which are not connected to the
>>> Internet. (Google "air gap" if you aren't aware of this - and again, the
>>> different spelling is crucial to the sentenced being comprehensible.)
>>> 
>>> The people who invented internets, and the Internet, carefully chose to use
>>> the capital precisely to distinguish between the two. (I recall the
>>> discussion.) The Internet Engineering Task Force, the body responsible for the
>>> technical specifications for internets and the Internet, continues to use that
>>> distinction.
>>> 
>>> Just as there are many 'white houses', but only one 'White House', there is an
>>> important distinction between 'internet(s)' and the 'Internet'.
>>> 
>>> So I hope you will update your editorial guidlines to note that the term for
>>> _the_ Internet is spelled with a capital.
>>> 
>>>      Noel
>>> _______
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>>> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
>>> .
>>> 
>> _______
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>> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.
> 
> ?
> Richard Bennett
> High Tech Forum <http://hightechforum.org/> Founder
> Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator
> 
> Internet Policy Consultant
> 
> _______
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> http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
> Contact list-owner at postel.org for assistance.

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