From cleslie at poly.edu Mon Jul 6 01:53:04 2009 From: cleslie at poly.edu (Christopher S. Leslie) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:53:04 +0200 Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists Message-ID: Dear Internet History List: Greetings. I am trying to learn more about the original mailing lists on ARPANET, particularly sf-lovers (sfl at sri-csl) and human-nets, for a book on science fiction. Although I see some information about these lists when they were forwarded to Usenet, there earlier lists on ARPANET that predate Usenet by a few years (perhaps as early as 1975). I do not know what to expect from this query, but I would appreciate any and all leads. I am hopeful that somewhere in the world there is a complete archive, but that of course would be too good to be true. If anyone have memories of this list, or can put me into contact with someone who does, please let me know. I would also appreciate anyone who can provide me with citations to research about this topic, as my search has turned up very little. Sincerely, Chris Leslie Christopher S. Leslie, Ph.D. Co-Advisor, Science and Technology Studies Polytechnic Institute of New York University 6 MetroTech Center, RH 213e Brooklyn, NY 11201 (718) 260-3130 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Feinler at earthlink.net Mon Jul 6 14:10:32 2009 From: Feinler at earthlink.net (Elizabeth Feinler) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:10:32 -0700 Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists In-Reply-To: <72c37f990907061320m66641dax4c1611f52f3d449@mail.gmail.com> References: <436E5A8A-7104-4BA1-9D2F-09E195F6A9B8@google.com> <72c37f990907061320m66641dax4c1611f52f3d449@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7F7B9CFB-9F9D-4FAB-AA17-917A1B95C733@earthlink.net> Hi Chris, et al, I am not sure what you are looking for - the content of the lists or the names of the people on the lists? I don't know the names as they were bundled under a blanket distribution name; however, the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA does have some of the old contents of the mailing lists. These are very incomplete, but would give you a flavor of what was discussed on the lists. I know we have some Human- Nets messages, but no Sci-Fi that I can recall (at least not in the stuff I contributed). I also remember a list of lists that tells what mailing lists were prevalent at the time. Paula Jabloner (jabloner at computerhistory.org) is the Head Archivist and would be the person to contact for permission to look at what we have. Chris, I don't know where you are located. If you are in Silicon Valley, I would be glad to show you what we have (with Paula's permission, of course, as these now belong to the museum.) Also, contact Peter Neumann at SRI as he is a long time member of CSL and might know if anyone there kept a copy of the mailing list and its contents. (probably Neumann or Pneumann at sri.com) Another contact might be Richard Zellich. He used to be with the Army in the St. Louis area. I have lost touch with him; however, his last name is unusual so you might be able to find it online. Rich used to keep up the list-of-lists and often provided this to the NIC way back when. I am sending this to the Internet-history group also, to urge those of you that might have copies of the contents of the old distribution lists, to let us know at the museum where they live online, or consider donating them, if in hardcopy. Regards, Jake Feinler On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Jeff Rulifson wrote: > Jake: Can you help Vint help Chris find any ARPANET email list from > the period between 1970 and 1975? Thanks, Jeff > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Vint Cerf wrote: > les, jeff > > who might know more about these early mailing lists? maybe jake > feinler?? someone at Stanford? > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Christopher S. Leslie" >> Date: July 6, 2009 4:53:04 AM EDT >> To: internet-hisinternet-history at postel.orgtory@postel.org >> Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists >> >> Dear Internet History List: >> >> Greetings. I am trying to learn more about the original mailing >> lists on ARPANET, particularly sf-lovers (sfl at sri-csl) and human- >> nets, for a book on science fiction. Although I see some >> information about these lists when they were forwarded to Usenet, >> there earlier lists on ARPANET that predate Usenet by a few years >> (perhaps as early as 1975). >> >> I do not know what to expect from this query, but I would >> appreciate any and all leads. I am hopeful that somewhere in the >> world there is a complete archive, but that of course would be too >> good to be true. If anyone have memories of this list, or can put >> me into contact with someone who does, please let me know. I would >> also appreciate anyone who can provide me with citations to >> research about this topic, as my search has turned up very little. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Chris Leslie >> >> >> Christopher S. Leslie, Ph.D. >> Co-Advisor, Science and Technology Studies >> Polytechnic Institute of New York University >> 6 MetroTech Center, RH 213e >> Brooklyn, NY 11201 >> (718) 260-3130 >> > > > > > -- > +1 (650) 223-4817 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vint at google.com Mon Jul 6 15:24:58 2009 From: vint at google.com (Vint Cerf) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:24:58 -0400 Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists In-Reply-To: <7F7B9CFB-9F9D-4FAB-AA17-917A1B95C733@earthlink.net> References: <436E5A8A-7104-4BA1-9D2F-09E195F6A9B8@google.com> <72c37f990907061320m66641dax4c1611f52f3d449@mail.gmail.com> <7F7B9CFB-9F9D-4FAB-AA17-917A1B95C733@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <60681722-0E1E-4F3C-8745-1FEEF11E0E68@google.com> thanks Jake - I am hoping that Les Earnest will be able to shed some light. Good idea to consult with the CHM also. v On Jul 6, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Elizabeth Feinler wrote: > Hi Chris, et al, > > I am not sure what you are looking for - the content of the lists or > the names of the people on the lists? I don't know the names as > they were bundled under a blanket distribution name; however, the > Computer History Museum in Mountain View, CA does have some of the > old contents of the mailing lists. These are very incomplete, but > would give you a flavor of what was discussed on the lists. I know > we have some Human-Nets messages, but no Sci-Fi that I can recall > (at least not in the stuff I contributed). I also remember a list > of lists that tells what mailing lists were prevalent at the time. > > Paula Jabloner (jabloner at computerhistory.org) is the Head Archivist > and would be the person to contact for permission to look at what we > have. Chris, I don't know where you are located. If you are in > Silicon Valley, I would be glad to show you what we have (with > Paula's permission, of course, as these now belong to the museum.) > > Also, contact Peter Neumann at SRI as he is a long time member of > CSL and might know if anyone there kept a copy of the mailing list > and its contents. (probably Neumann or Pneumann at sri.com) > > Another contact might be Richard Zellich. He used to be with the > Army in the St. Louis area. I have lost touch with him; however, > his last name is unusual so you might be able to find it online. > Rich used to keep up the list-of-lists and often provided this to > the NIC way back when. > > I am sending this to the Internet-history group also, to urge those > of you that might have copies of the contents of the old > distribution lists, to let us know at the museum where they live > online, or consider donating them, if in hardcopy. > > Regards, > > Jake Feinler > On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Jeff Rulifson wrote: > >> Jake: Can you help Vint help Chris find any ARPANET email list from >> the period between 1970 and 1975? Thanks, Jeff >> >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Vint Cerf wrote: >> les, jeff >> >> who might know more about these early mailing lists? maybe jake >> feinler?? someone at Stanford? >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Christopher S. Leslie" >>> Date: July 6, 2009 4:53:04 AM EDT >>> To: internet-hisinternet-history at postel.orgtory@postel.org >>> Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists >>> >>> Dear Internet History List: >>> >>> Greetings. I am trying to learn more about the original mailing >>> lists on ARPANET, particularly sf-lovers (sfl at sri-csl) and human- >>> nets, for a book on science fiction. Although I see some >>> information about these lists when they were forwarded to Usenet, >>> there earlier lists on ARPANET that predate Usenet by a few years >>> (perhaps as early as 1975). >>> >>> I do not know what to expect from this query, but I would >>> appreciate any and all leads. I am hopeful that somewhere in the >>> world there is a complete archive, but that of course would be too >>> good to be true. If anyone have memories of this list, or can put >>> me into contact with someone who does, please let me know. I would >>> also appreciate anyone who can provide me with citations to >>> research about this topic, as my search has turned up very little. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Chris Leslie >>> >>> >>> Christopher S. Leslie, Ph.D. >>> Co-Advisor, Science and Technology Studies >>> Polytechnic Institute of New York University >>> 6 MetroTech Center, RH 213e >>> Brooklyn, NY 11201 >>> (718) 260-3130 >>> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> +1 (650) 223-4817 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronda.netizen at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 18:53:19 2009 From: ronda.netizen at gmail.com (Ronda Hauben) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:53:19 -0400 Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists In-Reply-To: <7F7B9CFB-9F9D-4FAB-AA17-917A1B95C733@earthlink.net> References: <436E5A8A-7104-4BA1-9D2F-09E195F6A9B8@google.com> <72c37f990907061320m66641dax4c1611f52f3d449@mail.gmail.com> <7F7B9CFB-9F9D-4FAB-AA17-917A1B95C733@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi Chris I did a paper about the early mailing lists including msggroup and it also included a bit on Usenet at the end. http://ais.org/~ronda/new.papers/msghist.txt ARPANET Mailing Lists and Usenet Newsgroups Creating an Open and Scientific Process for Technology Development and Diffusion best wishes ronda On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Elizabeth Feinler wrote: > Hi Chris, et al, > I am not sure what you are looking for - the content of the lists or the > names of the people on the lists? I don't know the names as they were > bundled under a blanket distribution name; however, the Computer History > Museum in Mountain View, CA does have some of the old contents of the > mailing lists. These are very incomplete, but would give you a flavor of > what was discussed on the lists. I know we have some Human-Nets messages, > but no Sci-Fi that I can recall (at least not in the stuff I contributed). > I also remember a list of lists that tells what mailing lists were > prevalent at the time. > > Paula Jabloner (jabloner at computerhistory.org) is the Head Archivist and > would be the person to contact for permission to look at what we have. > Chris, I don't know where you are located. If you are in Silicon Valley, I > would be glad to show you what we have (with Paula's permission, of course, > as these now belong to the museum.) > > Also, contact Peter Neumann at SRI as he is a long time member of CSL and > might know if anyone there kept a copy of the mailing list and its contents. > (probably Neumann or Pneumann at sri.com) > > Another contact might be Richard Zellich. He used to be with the Army in > the St. Louis area. I have lost touch with him; however, his last name is > unusual so you might be able to find it online. Rich used to keep up the > list-of-lists and often provided this to the NIC way back when. > > I am sending this to the Internet-history group also, to urge those of you > that might have copies of the contents of the old distribution lists, to let > us know at the museum where they live online, or consider donating them, if > in hardcopy. > > Regards, > > Jake Feinler > On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Jeff Rulifson wrote: > > Jake: Can you help Vint help Chris find any ARPANET email list from the > period between 1970 and 1975? Thanks, Jeff > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Vint Cerf wrote: > >> les, jeff >> who might know more about these early mailing lists? maybe jake feinler?? >> someone at Stanford? >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *"Christopher S. Leslie" >> *Date: *July 6, 2009 4:53:04 AM EDT >> *To: *internet-his >> internet-history at postel.orgtory@postel.org >> >> *Subject: **[ih] arpanet mailing lists* >> >> Dear Internet History List: >> Greetings. I am trying to learn more about the original mailing lists on >> ARPANET, particularly sf-lovers (sfl at sri-csl) and human-nets, for a book >> on science fiction. Although I see some information about these lists when >> they were forwarded to Usenet, there earlier lists on ARPANET that predate >> Usenet by a few years (perhaps as early as 1975). >> >> I do not know what to expect from this query, but I would appreciate any >> and all leads. I am hopeful that somewhere in the world there is a complete >> archive, but that of course would be too good to be true. If anyone have >> memories of this list, or can put me into contact with someone who does, >> please let me know. I would also appreciate anyone who can provide me with >> citations to research about this topic, as my search has turned up very >> little. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Chris Leslie >> >> >> Christopher S. Leslie, Ph.D. >> Co-Advisor, Science and Technology Studies >> Polytechnic Institute of New York University >> 6 MetroTech Center, RH 213e >> Brooklyn, NY 11201 >> (718) 260-3130 >> >> >> > > > -- > +1 (650) 223-4817 > > > -- Netizens: On the History and Impact of Usenet and the Internet http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/netbook -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b_a_denny at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 09:51:13 2009 From: b_a_denny at yahoo.com (Barbara Denny) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ih] arpanet mailing lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <962559.66028.qm@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This address should work for Peter Neumann: neumann at csl.sri.com. barbara From dhc2 at dcrocker.net Sat Jul 11 22:34:05 2009 From: dhc2 at dcrocker.net (Dave CROCKER) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:34:05 -0700 Subject: [ih] NCP to TCP/IP Transition In-Reply-To: <49F5E268.90806@cs.tu-berlin.de> References: <49F5E268.90806@cs.tu-berlin.de> Message-ID: <4A5975CD.8060503@dcrocker.net> Matthias B?rwolff wrote: > Also, I am wondering, have the application layer gateways (relays) that > RFC 801 refers to been deployed, and if yes, to which extend, and how > successful? Since the University of Delaware was doing CSNet/Arpanet email gatewaying, Vint gave us a small contract to do Arpanet/Internet email gatewaying. I marginally got it running by December 82, before leaving UDel. After that, as I understand it, other CSNet folk like Craig Patridge and some other MMDF devotees had to do quite a bit of work to make it fully functional and sufficiently reliable. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net