From perry at piermont.com  Sun Jan 18 13:51:47 2004
From: perry at piermont.com (Perry E. Metzger)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:51:47 -0500
Subject: [ih] Modern way of losing ternary we;ght natural fangled
In-Reply-To: <iyqcuyjm.9895468swbtxl@Hyunsomiqzjlc> (yearconsistent@dwp.net's
 message of "Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:16:16 -0300")
References: <iyqcuyjm.9895468swbtxl@Hyunsomiqzjlc>
Message-ID: <87k73pdix8.fsf@snark.piermont.com>

"Hyuns" <yearconsistent at dwp.net> writes:
> Hello ellipsoid,

Well, if we have to get spam because Joe thinks it would be wrong to
do much about it, at least we get to be be addressed as "elipsoid".

On the internet history front, the best invented name I've gotten spam
from so far has been "Impunctual J. Kyrgyzistan" -- anyone have one
better than that?

Perry



From braden at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 08:47:47 2004
From: braden at ISI.EDU (Bob Braden)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:47:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
Message-ID: <200401271647.IAA21847@gra.isi.edu>

  *> From rfc-ed at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 06:50:44 2004
  *> To: rfc-editor at ISI.EDU
  *> Subject: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
  *> From: Craig Partridge <craig at bbn.com>
  *> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:50:33 -0500
  *> X-AntiVirus: scanned by AMaViS 0.2.1
  *> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0
  *> 	tests=AWL
  *> 	version=2.55
  *> X-Spam-Level: 
  *> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp)
  *> 
  *> 
  *> Hi folks:
  *> 
  *> Found an interesting quirk.  IEN 209 is cited in RFC 823, but does not
  *> appear in the IEN index.
  *> 
  *>     Rosen,  E.,  "Exterior  Gateway  Protocol,"  IEN-209,   Bolt
  *>     Beranek and Newman Inc., August 1982.
  *> 
  *> Craig
  *> 

Craig,

Thanks for the note.  I wonder whether anyone has a copy of 209? We
don't at ISI.  I seem to recall once having a copy of one of Eric's
documents about EGP, but I think it was the one where he demolished
the idea of using EGP as a global routing protocol.  Anyway, it seems
to have slipped away...

I would be glad to update the online IEN index, but first I would like
some corrobative evidence that this citation is correct.

Bob



From jkrey at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 09:16:00 2004
From: jkrey at ISI.EDU (Joyce Reynolds)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:16:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
Message-ID: <200401271716.i0RHG0v29305@boreas.isi.edu>



Folks,

Direct from the hardcopy IEN "Postel" notebooks, which currently live in Bill 
Manning's office and is cared for by Bill Manning  :-)


	"IEN-209"
	
	"NEVER BEEN ISSUED AND WON'T BE ISSUED IN THE FUTURE."
	
	
Joyce



From chris at cs.utexas.edu  Tue Jan 27 09:16:54 2004
From: chris at cs.utexas.edu (Chris Edmondson-Yurkanan)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:16:54 -0600
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
Message-ID: <200401271716.i0RHGstg016388@neverland.cs.utexas.edu>

Bob, to expand on the situation of IEN 209 (for others):

1) Most IEN indexes describe it as follows: 

   The note originally scheduled to be IEN 209 has been issued as an RFC 
   instead.
   Please refer to RFC 904.
      Title:      Exterior Gateway Protocol (EGP) Formal Specification
      Author:     Dave Mills
      Pathname:   RFC:RFC904.TXT
   Public access files may be copied from the RFC: directory at SRI-NIC.ARPA
   via FTP with username ANONYMOUS and password GUEST.

2) Yet, RFC 904's author is Dave Mills, not Eric Rosen, and has a date of 1984

3) RFC 904 references 2 preceding RFCs, including

	RFC 827
	EXTERIOR GATEWAY PROTOCOL (EGP) 
	Eric C. Rosen Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc.  October 1982

4) Thus, I wonder if actually RFC 827 was supposed to be IEN 209,
   and that the IEN 209 description should be changed to reference
   RFC 827 not RFC 904. ????

Thanks, Chris

-- 
Chris Edmondson-Yurkanan            TAY 4.136; +1 512 471 9546  Fax: 471 8885  
The University of Texas at Austin   Email addresses are: chris at cs.utexas.edu
Computer Sciences Department          or for fun: dragon at cs.utexas.edu
1 University Station C0500          URL:  www.cs.utexas.edu/users/chris/
Austin, TX   78712-0233             Fedex: please send to Taylor Hall 2.124 



From craig at bbn.com  Tue Jan 27 09:27:10 2004
From: craig at bbn.com (Craig Partridge)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 12:27:10 -0500
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 27 Jan 2004 08:47:47 PST."
             <200401271647.IAA21847@gra.isi.edu> 
Message-ID: <20040127172710.B5BFA1A4@aland.bbn.com>

Hi Bob:

That's the citation from RFC 823 -- which suggests the IEN existed
(one thing I wondered is whether the IEN number was assigned, but then
the document morphed into RFC 827?).

Craig

In message <200401271647.IAA21847 at gra.isi.edu>, Bob Braden writes:

>
>  *> From rfc-ed at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 06:50:44 2004
>  *> To: rfc-editor at ISI.EDU
>  *> Subject: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
>  *> From: Craig Partridge <craig at bbn.com>
>  *> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:50:33 -0500
>  *> X-AntiVirus: scanned by AMaViS 0.2.1
>  *> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0
>  *> 	tests=AWL
>  *> 	version=2.55
>  *> X-Spam-Level: 
>  *> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp)
>  *> 
>  *> 
>  *> Hi folks:
>  *> 
>  *> Found an interesting quirk.  IEN 209 is cited in RFC 823, but does not
>  *> appear in the IEN index.
>  *> 
>  *>     Rosen,  E.,  "Exterior  Gateway  Protocol,"  IEN-209,   Bolt
>  *>     Beranek and Newman Inc., August 1982.
>  *> 
>  *> Craig
>  *> 
>
>Craig,
>
>Thanks for the note.  I wonder whether anyone has a copy of 209? We
>don't at ISI.  I seem to recall once having a copy of one of Eric's
>documents about EGP, but I think it was the one where he demolished
>the idea of using EGP as a global routing protocol.  Anyway, it seems
>to have slipped away...
>
I would be glad to update the online IEN index, but first I would like
>some corrobative evidence that this citation is correct.
>
>Bob



From chris at cs.utexas.edu  Tue Jan 27 09:44:34 2004
From: chris at cs.utexas.edu (Chris Edmondson-Yurkanan)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:44:34 -0600
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
Message-ID: <200401271744.i0RHiZGA016756@neverland.cs.utexas.edu>

#
#Hi Bob:
#
#That's the citation from RFC 823 -- which suggests the IEN existed
#(one thing I wondered is whether the IEN number was assigned, but then
#the document morphed into RFC 827?).
#
 
 If so, it appears to have happened to RFC 823 as well:

	 some of the mirrored IEN indexes even cite that RFC 823 was supposed
	to be IEN 208 :-)

 Chris

#Craig
#
#In message <200401271647.IAA21847 at gra.isi.edu>, Bob Braden writes:
#
#>
#>  *> From rfc-ed at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 06:50:44 2004
#>  *> To: rfc-editor at ISI.EDU
#>  *> Subject: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
#>  *> From: Craig Partridge <craig at bbn.com>
#>  *> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:50:33 -0500
#>  *> X-AntiVirus: scanned by AMaViS 0.2.1
#>  *> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=5.0
#>  *> 	tests=AWL
#>  *> 	version=2.55
#>  *> X-Spam-Level: 
#>  *> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp)
#>  *> 
#>  *> 
#>  *> Hi folks:
#>  *> 
#>  *> Found an interesting quirk.  IEN 209 is cited in RFC 823, but does not
#>  *> appear in the IEN index.
#>  *> 
#>  *>     Rosen,  E.,  "Exterior  Gateway  Protocol,"  IEN-209,   Bolt
#>  *>     Beranek and Newman Inc., August 1982.
#>  *> 
#>  *> Craig
#>  *> 
#>
#>Craig,
#>
#>Thanks for the note.  I wonder whether anyone has a copy of 209? We
#>don't at ISI.  I seem to recall once having a copy of one of Eric's
#>documents about EGP, but I think it was the one where he demolished
#>the idea of using EGP as a global routing protocol.  Anyway, it seems
#>to have slipped away...
#>
#I would be glad to update the online IEN index, but first I would like
#>some corrobative evidence that this citation is correct.
#>
#>Bob
#



-- 
Chris Edmondson-Yurkanan            TAY 4.136; +1 512 471 9546  Fax: 471 8885  
The University of Texas at Austin   Email addresses are: chris at cs.utexas.edu
Computer Sciences Department          or for fun: dragon at cs.utexas.edu
1 University Station C0500          URL:  www.cs.utexas.edu/users/chris/
Austin, TX   78712-0233             Fedex: please send to Taylor Hall 2.124 



From jkrey at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 09:55:03 2004
From: jkrey at ISI.EDU (Joyce Reynolds)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 09:55:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
Message-ID: <200401271755.i0RHt3v19984@boreas.isi.edu>



Ditto in Postel's hardcopy notebook for IEN 208

-----------------------------------------



Folks,

Direct from the hardcopy IEN "Postel" notebooks, which currently live in Bill 
Manning's office and is cared for by Bill Manning  :-)


	"IEN-209"
	
	"NEVER BEEN ISSUED AND WON'T BE ISSUED IN THE FUTURE."
	
	
Joyce



From braden at ISI.EDU  Tue Jan 27 11:39:38 2004
From: braden at ISI.EDU (Bob Braden)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:39:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
Message-ID: <200401271939.LAA21903@gra.isi.edu>

  *> 
  *> 
  *> Folks,
  *> 
  *> Direct from the hardcopy IEN "Postel" notebooks, which currently live in Bill 
  *> Manning's office and is cared for by Bill Manning  :-)
  *> 
  *> 
  *> 	"IEN-209"
  *> 	
  *> 	"NEVER BEEN ISSUED AND WON'T BE ISSUED IN THE FUTURE."
  *> 	
  *> 	
  *> Joyce
  *> 

The Man has spoken!!  ;-)

Bob Braden



From mills at udel.edu  Tue Jan 27 11:58:22 2004
From: mills at udel.edu (David L. Mills)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:58:22 +0000
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
References: <200401271716.i0RHGstg016388@neverland.cs.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <4016C2DE.F2526F55@udel.edu>

Craig,

Gotta set the record straight. I didn't invent the EGP concept; Eric
did. I do claim inventor of the protocol itself. He wrote sections of
two BBN reports which discussed the idea from several perspectives. One
of them was a long-winded discussion of the model and perceived
weaknesses. The isssue was how to design a robust architecture that
could never result in a loop between autonomous systems. Bob may recall
a little addition by me that allowed mapping between metrics in
different systems that achieved this for the NSFnet phase-1 backbone.

I stole Eric's principles and built a protocol around it. We kicked it
around in the ICCB anmd GADS and polished up the unicore paradigm. While
my name is on the RFC, EGP was the product of many folks that was
eventually overtaken by policy based routing and BGP.

Dave
 
Chris Edmondson-Yurkanan wrote:
> 
> Bob, to expand on the situation of IEN 209 (for others):
> 
> 1) Most IEN indexes describe it as follows:
> 
>    The note originally scheduled to be IEN 209 has been issued as an RFC
>    instead.
>    Please refer to RFC 904.
>       Title:      Exterior Gateway Protocol (EGP) Formal Specification
>       Author:     Dave Mills
>       Pathname:   RFC:RFC904.TXT
>    Public access files may be copied from the RFC: directory at SRI-NIC.ARPA
>    via FTP with username ANONYMOUS and password GUEST.
> 
> 2) Yet, RFC 904's author is Dave Mills, not Eric Rosen, and has a date of 1984
> 
> 3) RFC 904 references 2 preceding RFCs, including
> 
>         RFC 827
>         EXTERIOR GATEWAY PROTOCOL (EGP)
>         Eric C. Rosen Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc.  October 1982
> 
> 4) Thus, I wonder if actually RFC 827 was supposed to be IEN 209,
>    and that the IEN 209 description should be changed to reference
>    RFC 827 not RFC 904. ????
> 
> Thanks, Chris
> 
> --
> Chris Edmondson-Yurkanan            TAY 4.136; +1 512 471 9546  Fax: 471 8885
> The University of Texas at Austin   Email addresses are: chris at cs.utexas.edu
> Computer Sciences Department          or for fun: dragon at cs.utexas.edu
> 1 University Station C0500          URL:  www.cs.utexas.edu/users/chris/
> Austin, TX   78712-0233             Fedex: please send to Taylor Hall 2.124



From map at snap.org  Tue Jan 27 13:36:29 2004
From: map at snap.org (Mike Padlipsky)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:36:29 -0800
Subject: [ih] Re: IEN 209 missing from IEN index
In-Reply-To: <200401271939.LAA21903@gra.isi.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20040127132301.01bfc900@mail.lafn.org>

At 11:39 AM 1/27/2004, Bob Braden wrote:
>The Man has spoken!!  ;-)

so, does that imply that all i have to do to get you finally to keep your 
4- [or is it 5-?] years and counting old promise to 'post' rfc 666 is to 
convince joyce to tell you she's seen a notation jon made about it?

[just in case she cannot bring herself to tell a lie in a good cause -- 
and, of c., in case she can't find a useful notation -- remember, i hadn't 
even paid any attention to the fact that i'd written rfc 666 until jon 
pointed it out to me when we were going over my rfc's [back in the days 
when the best, and perhaps only, way to do that sort of thing was via his 
nls files: '90 +/- 1, as i reconstruct it] to help me decide which number 
to have put on my complimentary interop t-shirt, so at some level he did 
'bless' it.  doesn't that help?]


cheers, map
http://www.lafn.org/~ba213/mapstuff.html

"One (indeed, perhaps the only) indisputable benefit of the 'Net is that 
you don't have to waste any stamps on, nor be complicitous in the killing 
of any trees for, letters to editors and/or other invincibly smug corporate 
behemoths that aren't going to be responded to because they show said 
institutions up, but need to be sent anyway."

        --first new, official Elements of Networking Style Slogan in 
yearsandyears