[Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17 September 2024

Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond ocl at gih.com
Thu Oct 24 07:24:20 PDT 2024


Dear Ilona,

referring to my email below, I note with concern that I appear to have 
not received any response from you on the matters I raised. Having 
mentioned in your email dated 8 October 2024 that "/All necessary legal 
documents, including agreements, have been put in place to respect the 
separate nature of the two organizations." /, I am yet to have seen any 
of these documents which you mentioned. Please be so kind to share them 
or if this is not possible, even in a redacted manner, then please 
provide a list of the agreements to which you refer, including the date 
of the agreement, the name of the agreement, the signatory parties, and 
a brief description of each agreement.

I reiterate the differentiation between a "supporting organisation" and 
a "merged organisation", which are not legally the same. Supporting 
organisations require, under Company Law, that the link between the 
Supporting Organisation and the Supported Organisation is formalised by 
a set of service agreements since the two organisations remain legally 
distinct.

I look forward to your prompt response.

Kindest regards,

Olivier Crépin-Leblond


On 15/10/2024 10:56, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
> Dear Ilona,
>
> thank you for your email dated 10 October 2024.
>
> I am disappointed to note that you have still not provided a response 
> with the information requested in my emails appended in the email 
> thread below. You will note the extract below from my email dated 8 
> October 2024:
>
> QUOTE:
> "Responding to your note: "/All necessary legal documents, including 
> agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of 
> the two organizations./
>
> All I am asking is for them to be shared. If that is not possible, 
> even in a redacted manner, for whatever reason, then please provide a 
> list of the agreements to which you refer, including the date of the 
> agreement, the name of the agreement, the signatory parties, and a 
> brief description of each agreement."
>
> I reiterate this request and would be grateful if you could provide 
> the information requested without further delay.
>
> I very much appreciate (and draw your attention to) the input and 
> support for this information request from my fellow "Chapter Delegates".
>
> As a reminder, in U.S. company law, a "supporting organisation" and a 
> "merged organisation" are not legally the same.
>
> I am pleased that we all appear to agree that the Internet Society 
> Foundation is formally a "Section 509(a)(3) Supporting Organisation" 
> under United States Non Profit Tax Law.
> The information from the IRS links below provide helpful "Official 
> Guidance":
>
> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/section-509a3-supporting-organizations
> https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/supporting-organizations-requirements-and-types
>
> I look forward to your prompt response.
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Olivier Crépin-Leblond
>
>
> On 10/10/2024 17:04, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>
>> Hi Olivier,
>>
>> Thank you for your follow up email. I think the use of the term 
>> "outsourcing" in the email below might have caused some confusion.  
>> You mentioned you are familiar with the “supporting organizations” 
>> and how they operate, but it might also be helpful for me to provide 
>> some additional background for others.
>>
>> As you know, the relationship between supporting and supported 
>> organizations is not a vendor or contractor relationship. Though 
>> the Foundation is a separate corporation, it is a controlled 
>> subsidiary of ISOC, not a third-party service provider or outside 
>> contractor.  So ISOC is not “outsourcing” to the Foundation but 
>> instead, the two entities cooperate to achieve the mission of the 
>> Internet Society.  In other words, as a supporting organization, the 
>> Foundation’s purpose is to operate for the benefit of, and to 
>> support, ISOC. In furtherance of that purpose, the Foundation 
>> conducts programs and activities that benefit ISOC and furthers 
>> ISOC’s mission. For example, the Foundation engages in communications 
>> activities at the direction of and to the benefit of ISOC.
>>
>> As you also know based on your extensive experience with nonprofits, 
>> the Internet Society Board develops the overall strategy for 
>> ISOC. Internet Society management then develops its action plan and 
>> in turn, works with the Foundation to ensure that it, as a 
>> supporting organization, provides the support necessary to achieve 
>> ISOC’s goals. The Foundation does that through its own action plan, 
>> which sets out objectives for all of its functions, including 
>> the communications function.  So the Board sets the strategy, 
>> Internet Society management creates the action plans, and the 
>> Foundation management allocates resources to support those plans as 
>> necessary.
>>
>> After the approval of the 2025 action plans, ISOC will share them 
>> with the community.  As discussed earlier, part of that will be Chris 
>> presenting to this community how the communications group will be 
>> tackling its work in the upcoming year.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ilona
>>
>> *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 8:47 AM
>> *To: *Ilona Levine <levine at isoc.org>, Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>, Sally 
>> Wentworth <wentworth at isoc.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17 
>> September 2024
>>
>> Dear Ilona,
>>
>> Further to our discussion two weeks ago regarding the definition of 
>> the relationship between the Internet Society and the Internet 
>> Society Foundation, in the absence of your response, I wish to 
>> reiterate the need for a clear outsourcing agreement between these 
>> entities. It is recognised as good business practice internationally 
>> to establish such agreements to delineate respective liabilities in 
>> the execution of these contracts.
>>
>> Responding to your note: "/All necessary legal documents, including 
>> agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of 
>> the two organizations./"
>>
>> All I am asking is for them to be shared. If that is not possible, 
>> even in a redacted manner, for whatever reason, then please provide a 
>> list of the agreements to which you refer, including the date of the 
>> agreement, the name of the agreement, the signatory parties, and a 
>> brief description of each agreement.
>>
>> Looking forward to your prompt response.
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Olivier Crépin-Leblond
>>
>>
>> On 24/09/2024 17:22, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
>>
>>     Dear Ilona,
>>
>>     Many thanks for your follow-up.
>>
>>     The thread may not have come all through. During the Chapter
>>     Advisory Council call, Ted mentioned the transfer of some
>>     responsibilities in relation to Communications from the Internet
>>     Society to the Internet Society Foundation. My initial question
>>     to Ted was in regards to the outsourcing agreement as follows:
>>
>>     /"I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet
>>     Society Foundation may have been designated by the Internet
>>     Society as a "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society,
>>     it remains a distinct and separate legal entity. Therefore, I
>>     assume that any "outsourcing" of responsibilities such as
>>     Marketing and/or Communications would be defined in a written
>>     "contract for services" between the Parties setting out
>>     (inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party.
>>     Could you please provide the terms for such an agreement and any
>>     limitations therein?
>>
>>     My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the
>>     Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These
>>     are fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be
>>     included in the "contract for services""./
>>
>>     The top level responsibility of the strategy of the Internet
>>     Society remains within the Internet Society. I find it surprising
>>     that an outsourcing entity would be able to dictate that strategy
>>     without it being agreed by the Internet Society itself.
>>     The Internet Society has the opportunity to outsource the
>>     execution of its Communications Plan to a supporting organisation
>>     on the basis of terms and conditions agreed between the parties.
>>     This requires outsourcing agreement(s) in order to know where the
>>     boundaries and responsibilities are between the two
>>     organisations, including their respective liabilities in the
>>     execution of these agreement(s).
>>
>>     For example:
>>
>>
>>           Key Components of an Outsourcing Communications Agreement
>>
>>      1. *Introduction and Definitions*:
>>
>>           * Clearly define the parties involved.
>>           * Provide definitions for key terms used throughout the
>>             agreement.
>>
>>      2. *Scope of Services*:
>>
>>           * Detail the specific services to be outsourced.
>>           * Include service level agreements (SLAs) to set
>>             performance standards.
>>
>>      3. *Term and Termination*:
>>
>>           * Specify the duration of the agreement.
>>           * Outline conditions for termination by either party.
>>
>>      4. *Pricing and Payment Terms*:
>>
>>           * Define the pricing structure and payment schedule.
>>           * Include any penalties for late payments or performance
>>             failures.
>>
>>      5. *Confidentiality and Data Protection*:
>>
>>           * Ensure compliance with data protection laws.
>>           * Include confidentiality clauses to protect sensitive
>>             information.
>>
>>      6. *Intellectual Property Rights*:
>>
>>           * Clarify the ownership of any intellectual property
>>             created during the agreement.
>>
>>      7. *Warranties and Liability*:
>>
>>           * Outline the warranties provided by the service provider.
>>           * Define the liability limits for both parties.
>>
>>      8. *Monitoring and Reporting*:
>>
>>           * Establish how performance will be monitored and reported.
>>           * Include provisions for regular review meetings.
>>
>>      9. *Dispute Resolution*:
>>
>>           * Specify the process for resolving disputes.
>>           * Include mediation or arbitration clauses if applicable.
>>
>>     10. *Exit Management*:
>>
>>           * Plan for the transition of services back to the company
>>             or to another provider.
>>           * Include provisions for the transfer of data and assets.
>>
>>
>>
>>     I trust that you mentioned: "All necessary legal documents,
>>     including agreements, have been put in place to respect the
>>     separate nature of the two organizations."
>>     Thus I would be interested in its details as explained in my email.
>>
>>     Kindest regards,
>>
>>     Olivier
>>
>>     On 23/09/2024 18:36, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>
>>         Dear Olivier,
>>
>>         I understand that the nature of your request is to assist the
>>         Chapters Advisory Council and Chris Locke in preparation to
>>         his session on the communication plan. The agreement in place
>>         since 2018 between the Foundation and Internet Society
>>         focuses on the legal obligations in line with the
>>         Foundation's role as a 509(a)(3) and therefore, won’t be
>>         useful for that purpose.
>>
>>         Best regards,
>>
>>         Ilona
>>
>>         *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
>>         <mailto:ocl at gih.com>
>>         *Date: *Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 8:52 AM
>>         *To: *Ilona Levine <levine at isoc.org>
>>         <mailto:levine at isoc.org>, Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com>
>>         <mailto:ted.ietf at gmail.com>
>>         *Cc: *Chapter Delegates <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>         <mailto:Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>, Sally Wentworth
>>         <wentworth at isoc.org> <mailto:wentworth at isoc.org>
>>         *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting
>>         of 17 September 2024
>>
>>         Dear Ilona,
>>
>>         thank you for clarifying that all necessary legal documents,
>>         including agreements, have been duly executed to respect the
>>         separate nature of the two organisations.
>>
>>         I am aware of the publication of the original IETF
>>         Administration LLC agreements with the Internet Society,
>>         specifically:
>>         IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement (2020)
>>         <https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_Funding_Agreement_-_Executed_-_20201123.pdf>
>>         IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amendment (2020)
>>         <https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_ISOC_Funding_Amendment_Amendment_-_20201222.pdf>
>>         IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amended and Restated (2024)
>>         <https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/ISOC-IETF_Amended_Funding_Agreement_-_20240103_-_Redacted_Executed.pdf>
>>
>>         These documents are accessible on the IETF Administration
>>         LLC’s website at https://www.ietf.org/administration/overview/.
>>
>>         Could you kindly confirm whether the agreements between the
>>         Foundation and the Internet Society are also publicly
>>         available? I have been unable to locate them on either website.
>>
>>         I would appreciate it if you could provide a list of the
>>         agreements to which you refer, including the date of the
>>         agreement, the name of the agreement, the signatory parties,
>>         and a brief description of each agreement.
>>
>>         I look forward to your kind response.
>>
>>         Kindest regards,
>>
>>         Olivier
>>
>>
>>         On 20/09/2024 19:48, Ilona Levine wrote:
>>
>>             Hi Olivier, thank you for your follow up email.  You
>>             noted that you are aware of the tax requirements that
>>             apply to supporting organizations.  Mainly, those
>>             requirements relate to supporting the mission of its
>>             supported entities.  In this case, the Internet Society.
>>
>>             As part of that support, the Foundation provides grants
>>             to other organizations that have missions consistent with
>>             the Internet Society’s in order to fund programs that
>>             further the Internet Society’s purposes. The Foundation
>>             also engages in activities that support Internet Society
>>             directly. For example, the Foundation engages in
>>             fundraising and communication activities for the benefit
>>             of the Internet Society.
>>
>>             As you also pointed out, the Foundation is a separate
>>             legal entity.  It is a controlled subsidiary of Internet
>>             Society.  All necessary legal documents, including
>>             agreements, have been put in place to respect the
>>             separate nature of the two organizations.
>>
>>             I trust this answers your question.
>>
>>             Best regards,
>>
>>             Ilona
>>
>>             *Ilona Levine,* SVP, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary
>>
>>             levine at isoc.org <mailto:levine at isoc.org>|
>>             internetsociety.org | @internetsociety
>>
>>             Donate today. <https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ>
>>
>>             *Help protect the Internet for everyone.*
>>
>>             https://backchannel.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/image001.png
>>
>>             This communication is the property of the Internet
>>             Society and may contain confidential or privileged
>>             information.  Unauthorized use of this communication is
>>             strictly prohibited.  If you have received it in error,
>>             please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
>>             copies of the communication and any attachments.
>>
>>             *From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
>>             <mailto:ocl at gih.com>
>>             *Date: *Friday, September 20, 2024 at 11:38 AM
>>             *To: *Ted IETF <ted.ietf at gmail.com>
>>             <mailto:ted.ietf at gmail.com>, Ilona Levine
>>             <levine at isoc.org> <mailto:levine at isoc.org>
>>             *Cc: *Chapter Delegates
>>             <Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>             <mailto:Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>, Sally
>>             Wentworth <wentworth at isoc.org> <mailto:wentworth at isoc.org>
>>             *Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council
>>             Meeting of 17 September 2024
>>
>>             Dear Ted,
>>
>>             thank you for your follow-up on this matter. I am aware
>>             of the special tax terms in relation to "supporting
>>             organisations".
>>
>>             That being said, the Internet Society Foundation is a
>>             distinct and separate legal entity to the Internet
>>             Society, irrespective of the relationship between them.
>>             As a result, any outsourcing task undertaken by one, for
>>             the other entity, would be defined in a contract, whether
>>             written, verbal or otherwise. If not, there is a lack of
>>             clarity and expectations about the relationship, which
>>             brings potential liability and risk that both entities
>>             are subjected to, in relation to the other's actions. Any
>>             lawyer would tell you that it is highly advisable to have
>>             a written contract, if only for legal protection.
>>
>>             Thanks for letting me know that you are travelling. I am
>>             copying President and CEO Sally Wentworth in case you're
>>             unavailable for a length of time.
>>
>>             Kindest regards,
>>
>>             Olivier
>>
>>             On 20/09/2024 13:12, Ted Hardie wrote:
>>
>>                 Hi Olivier,
>>
>>                 A supporting organization is a term of art in US tax
>>                 law, please see:
>>
>>                 https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/supporting-organizations-requirements-and-types
>>
>>                 and
>>
>>                 https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/section-509a3-supporting-organizations
>>
>>                 Explaining how the two relate is complicated enough
>>                 that there are legal briefs on it; I have cc'ed the
>>                 Society's chief counsel in case you would like that
>>                 level of detail.  The summary, however, is that a
>>                 supporting organization is a charity because it
>>                 supports the charitable purpose of the main
>>                 organization.  As a result, it can provide services
>>                 to the main organization under the special tax rules
>>                 noted above.
>>
>>                 Note that I am traveling and will generally be slow
>>                 to respond for a few days, but hopefully the links
>>                 above will get you started and Ilona can provide more
>>                 detailed legal information as needed.
>>
>>                 regards,
>>
>>                 Ted Hardie
>>
>>                 On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 6:24 AM Olivier MJ
>>                 Crépin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com> wrote:
>>
>>                     Dear Ted,
>>
>>
>>                     During this week’s Chapters Advisory Council
>>                     call, you mentioned that the Internet Society
>>                     Foundation, as a "supporting organisation" of the
>>                     Internet Society, is managing the communications
>>                     department for the Internet Society.
>>
>>                     Upon seeking clarification, you explained that
>>                     the Internet Society Foundation comprises two
>>                     elements: one philanthropic (grant-making) and
>>                     the other as a "supporting organisation" of the
>>                     Internet Society. "This implies that many of the
>>                     supporting functions for the Internet Society as
>>                     a whole are now part of the Foundation, primarily
>>                     because the Foundation can provide these services
>>                     to the Internet Society at no cost".
>>
>>                     You further elaborated that this "arrangement"
>>                     allows the Internet Society to allocate its
>>                     budget more effectively.
>>
>>                     I was previously unaware of this change. Although
>>                     the Internet Society Foundation may have been
>>                     designated by the Internet Society as a
>>                     "supporting organisation" of the Internet
>>                     Society, it remains a distinct and separate legal
>>                     entity. Therefore, I assume that any
>>                     "outsourcing" of responsibilities such as
>>                     Marketing and/or Communications would be defined
>>                     in a written "contract for services" between the
>>                     Parties setting out (inter-alia) the terms,
>>                     rights, and obligations of each Party. Could you
>>                     please provide the terms for such an agreement
>>                     and any limitations therein?
>>
>>                     My principal concern lies in distinguishing
>>                     between executing the Communications Plan and
>>                     drafting the Communications Plan. These are
>>                     fundamentally different tasks and would
>>                     undoubtedly be included in the "contract for
>>                     services".
>>
>>                     The "contract for services" (together with any
>>                     relevant supporting information) will be helpful
>>                     input for both the Chapters Advisory Council and
>>                     also for Chris Locke and his Team (including for
>>                     the current "branding" presentations) in
>>                     preparation for the promised session from Chris
>>                     Locke to the Chapters Advisory Council.
>>
>>                     I look forward to your response and to receiving
>>                     a copy of the "contract for services" agreement,
>>                     together with any relevant supporting information
>>                     as requested above.
>>
>>                     Kindest regards,
>>
>>                     Olivier
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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