[Chapter-delegates] Email and Fonteva (was Re: Re: Questions to Internet Society Board of Trustees from the UK England Chapter of the Internet Society)

Thu Apr 4 14:30:26 PDT 2024

Hi Andrew and Chapter delegates,

I do appreciate the need for Fonteva (though yet to see it). It does have
features that are helpful I believe.

However, I believe the concerns being raised are not about the best
features related to membership management.

The main issues include among others; easy day-to-day communication
features that are mentioned yet inaccessible.  For instance, its not easy
to send emails to select members or specific chapter leaders and so on.
Chatter works, but its general. That I agree with Nazar and many others.

Secondly, uploading documents or adding year chapter activities isnt easy
as compared to the previous AMS. If an option to upload an excel (csv or
ics file) was there to update activities, it would be better.

Thirdly, the logging into the chapter platform (dashboard) while a leader
is another task involving search as though you are applying for membership
and there are still limitations. I believe the leadership dashboard should
have that integration and switch easily and seamless.

I must appreciate the good appearance and neatness of Fonteva. However, use
case scenario is quite hard even for some that are techie.

I highly recommend a series of live webinars to show Chapter delegates how
to use the new AMS. The prerecorded videos seem to have different features
than what we see. Thus the reason for increased concerns.

I submit.

Regards

Levy Syanseke

Ramah Designs - Founder
Internet Society Zambia Chapter - Founding President

+260 978 210 494

*God is a Designer*

On Thu, 4 Apr 2024, 22:37 Andrew Sullivan via Chapter-delegates, <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> Hi Olivier,
>
> I don't think anyone has suggested (and especially I don't think I
> suggested) that the mail interface as it exists is ideal for these kinds of
> list management tasks.  I was rather responding to the suggestion that this
> should work just like an end-user mail environment, and I was trying to
> explain why it doesn't and can't.
>
> I think there is no question that MailChimp is indeed among the best in
> the market for certain kinds of newsletters and so forth.  But of course,
> Fonteva has a different purpose, and only _one_ of its jobs is to support
> this kind of mailing.  I think we have reports from people, on this list,
> that while the set-up workflow is indeed somewhat cumbersome, it needs to
> be done once and then it works reliably.  It is of course a pity that
> Fonteva is not the UX market leader for newsletter delivery, but it
> provides other features and benefits (like, for instance, all the other
> association management pieces that are an important part of what we needed)
> that are not available from MailChimp or other mail-delivery platforms.
>
> And, it bears mentioning again, this was a software choice we made _with
> the involvement of the community_, as Christine laid out here quite
> recently.
>
> We continue to refine the experience with Fonteva, and it remains valuable
> for you to document deficiencies (by opening tickets) when you see them.
> Andre Copelin has outlined the release process over the next little while,
> so you can expect to see continuous improvement, though whether the UX of
> this portion of Fonteva will ever be as slick as MailChimp I doubt.
>
> I hope this responds to your mail.
>
> Best regards,
>
> A
>
> On Wed, Apr 03, 2024 at 10:24:14AM +0200, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via
> Chapter-delegates wrote:
> >Dear Andrew,
> >
> >thank you for your follow-up relating to the ISOC FONTEVA emailing system.
> >I must admit I am baffled by your explanation. I understand that the
> >complexity of international regulations relating to bulk mailings is
> >increasingly complicated, but I cannot see the link between an
> >incredibly cumbersome, illogical and unfriendly way to send bulk
> >emails out from FONTEVA and spam legislation.
> >
> >For an example on how all of the above seems to be addressed easily
> >you just need to see a product like MailChimp to show how it *should*
> >be done.
> >See how simple this is: https://youtu.be/T7t2ihsGYak?si=r0FB5MLN2MGjYWo-
> >
> >This was the 2017 version. The current MailChimp is even easier to use
> >and better to make really excellent newsletters and mailings. On top
> >of this, its help section is really helpful and has lots and lots of
> >excellent templates. Frankly most of the features found in MailChimp
> >are found in other mailing systems that are equally as simple - for
> >example ConstantContact and others. And none of these have a problem
> >with GDPR, Spam, etc.
> >
> >I am still puzzled as to how the FONTEVA folks designed what they
> >designed, unless we are trying to use the tool for something it is not
> >meant to do.
> >Kindest regards,
> >
> >Olivier
> >
> >
> >On 02/04/2024 16:34, Andrew Sullivan via Chapter-delegates wrote:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I think we have tried, more than once, to address the question
> >>below, but the way this was stated gave me a new idea about how to
> >>address it; so I hope this round will help to explain to people why
> >>something they think should be trivial is in fact not.
> >>
> >>On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 07:11:52PM +0300, Nazar Nicholas via
> >>Chapter-delegates wrote:
> >>
> >>>short of being “ user friendly “. It was touted as robust AMS but having
> >>>used it I feel that when you are sending a simple email to member,
> >>>you have
> >>>got to first qualify as a techie. Sending email is supposed to be
> >>>a 1,2,3
> >>>and there it goes! But for FONTEVA you have to hussle to send a simple
> >>>email. Why could they integrate in the Fonteva AMS a simple email
> >>>sending
> >>>platform like gmail type of thing?
> >>
> >>The challenge that I think many people are having is that they're
> >>imagining sending email to chapter members from the chapter (i.e.
> >>from the chapter's account, or from an officer's account, or
> >>whatever) is like sending an email from one person to another, or
> >>even to a mailing list.  But it isn't, and the reason has to do with
> >>spam control laws as well as anti-spam techniques that mail
> >>providers use.
> >>
> >>When you send mail _as an organization_, you fall under various
> >>spam-control regimes around the world.  All of them, it appears,
> >>have two basic classes of things.  One of them are strictly required
> >>communications that are a necessary part of being associated with
> >>the association in question.  So, for instance, when you sign up for
> >>membership in a chapter, there are certain emails that you are
> >>_intrinsically_ agreeing to get, and the only way not to get those
> >>is to give up being a member.  These mails, even if not wanted, are
> >>not "spam" because they are part of the function of being a member
> >>at all.
> >>
> >>Other mails are the sort of thing that a member might not want to
> >>hear about, even if it is generally of interest to chapter
> >>membership.  This might be, for instance, progress on a major
> >>chapter initiative.
> >>
> >>Anti-spam legislation treats these two cases very differently, and
> >>therefore we have to have a mechanism to do so.  This is the reason
> >>for the somewhat complicated set-up of profiles before sending
> >>email.  As others have already noted on this list, once the profiles
> >>are set up, they can be re-used.  But we recognize that this is an
> >>unaccustomed part of the workflow.
> >>
> >>That is the reason we have tried to provide a number of different
> >>resources for people who are having to operate this new workflow
> >>element.  We have dedicated support staff that are available to help
> >>you with this as you are developing your workflow.  Please continue
> >>to rely on us to provide that support, so that every chapter can be
> >>successful with this and also so that we can all comply with
> >>antispam regulations and laws.
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >>
> >>A
> >>
>
> >_______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Andrew Sullivan, President & CEO, Internet Society
> e:sullivan at isoc.org m:+1 416 731 1261
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> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
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