[Chapter-delegates] confirm 0a16209b66c9307335f46064363a213832138a5b

[Klaus Birkenbihl]

Hi Andrew, hi all,

in general I agree with what Andrew said about mailing lists and Membernova. And I strongly believe that we don't make good use of IETF, W3C other standards to support our communication and administration in a networked environment. Instead we believe in highly proprietary solutions like Membernova or Connect that deliberately set their own rules and standards and poorly interface with open Internet protocols.

This said the following story was a great affirmation of my prejudices:

 1. getting onto a mailing list without request, but with a notification and an opt out option. *OK if this is ISOC habit*.
 2. when the mailing list is no longer needed everybody who was added without a request has to agree to be removed. *Wonderfully insane*!

The only little deficit: *the story is **not true*. Here the true story:

 1. as above
 2. a rather annoying forth and back of silly "*get me from the list*" and "*remove me too*" requests and educational messages on "*how to unsubscribe*" on the list.
 3. not too much interest in this and other discussions on the list from my side. *I go to the Webpage to unsubscribe.*
 4. ~4 weeks break. /me busy with other things.
 5. Checking my  chapters folder I find the unsubscribe confirmation mail - didn't check the date. Unfortunately - lame excuse: being 75 - I had completely forgotten about my unsubscribe request. Indeed it was Hans Peter Dittler who - with some help from the logfiles and geolocating the IP address - told me that there was a unsubscribe request from my network.

So - in essence - *nothing wrong with the process on ISOC's side*. *The only one to blame is me*. I have to apologize and tell myself to be more cautious next time. Sorry for all the effort caused by this.

Best regards

Klaus


Andrew Sullivan wrote on 22.04.23 18:56:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 11:00:18AM +0200, Klaus Birkenbihl via Chapter-delegates
>> Hi delegates,
>>
>> excellent - though a bit puzzling - to be asked to confirm an unsubscribe for a list that I never subscribed to.
>>
> The Internet Society staff are aware that the mechanics of the AMS<->mailing list integration are poor.  The way this works, today, with MemberNova is that there are some lists to which you are subscribed due to your preferences, and some lists to which you are subscribed due to your role.
>
> All of these chapter-role lists are ones to which you will be subscribed by virtue of your chapter role.  If you do not wish to be subscribed to those lists, you need to change your role in your chapter, and once that change is reflected in MemberNova you will be automatically unsubscribed from the lists too.  If you unsubscribe from those lists using standard mailman commands, you will find some hours later that you are resubscribed, because the list membership is groomed every several hours in a batch job from MemberNova.  This is _also_ true of any lists you are subscribed to through your member portal and from which you unsubscribe via mailman.
>
> I am painfully and personally aware of how awkward all this is.  As we have announced more than once, we are working to replace the AMS with a new one, and so feature improvements are not being pursued within the MemberNova system.
>
> I do expect that we will have a better interface in the long run through the new member portal, though that improvement might not happen at the time of launch.
>
> Thanks for your understanding and patience.
>
> Best regards,
>
> A

-- 
Klaus Birkenbihl
Internet Society German Chapter (ISOC.DE) e.V.
c/o ict-Media GmbH
https://www.isoc.de
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