[Chapter-delegates] ISOC open letter

Fri May 21 04:43:36 PDT 2021

+1

Good comment!

Borka

Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via Chapter-delegates je 20. 05. 2021 ob 
20:06 napisal:
> ...and yet they are possibly the only remaining barrier to stop 
> politicians from saying "the Internet is unregulated, we need to 
> regulate the Internet" and TBL from complacently accepting the Web 
> anniversary interchangeably with the Internet anniversary... since for 
> most people, the Web <-> Internet is the same thing...
>
> One diagram explains it to a politician. Over the years, I have used 
> it on several ministers and suddenly you see that change in their 
> facial expression. Not that I'd imagine any politician to understand 
> the OSI layers functionality, but they understand that in a layer 
> cake, when the icing tastes too sweet, it's nothing to do with the 
> base of the cake itself. So deal with the icing, not the base. :-)
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Olivier
>
> On 20/05/2021 19:54, Steve Crocker via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>> When we were first thinking protocol architecture for the Arpanet, 
>> layers were building blocks.  They were to be used if and when they 
>> were useful, but it was also envisioned people might skip layers, 
>> insert layers, etc., etc.  I turned away from networking after a 
>> couple of years.  When I turned my attention back to network some 
>> years later, I learned the OSI model had exactly seven layers.  I 
>> nearly fell over laughing.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 1:50 PM Andrew Sullivan via Chapter-delegates 
>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org 
>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>
>>     On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 06:58:04PM +0200, Richard Hill via
>>     Chapter-delegates wrote:
>>
>>     >To me, the Link, Internet, and Transport layers are for sure
>>     infrastructure.
>>     >Some parts of the Application layer might be infrastructure, but
>>     much of it
>>     >is not.
>>
>>     Suppose I invent an experimental transport that I'm using over
>>     the Internet to communicate with two friends.  Is it
>>     infrastructure?  Maybe sort of -- it's perhaps infrastructure for
>>     the three of us, but it's really just mystery garbage to everyone
>>     else.  Now, suppose that I am Google and I invent an experimental
>>     protocol that I deploy to browsers that I give to everyone (but
>>     which is not yet standardized) and that lives in an
>>     application-layer protocol.  Is it infrastructure?  I'd say it's
>>     hard to claim that it is _not_ infrastructure, and so we're
>>     already in deep trouble with the layer model.
>>
>>     Further,
>>
>>     >No, there is not a bright line. Still I think that most people
>>     would agree
>>     >that, at least at present, e-commerce platforms, streaming
>>     services, and
>>     >social media are not infrastructure.
>>
>>     I am unprepared to speculate what most people would agree to on
>>     this topic, but I'm rather less certain than you seem to be.  I
>>     definitely disagree that some parts of social media are not
>>     infrastructure: the uniquity of "login via Facebook", "login via
>>     Google", and "login via Twitter" buttons show that _at least
>>     part_ of some social media platforms are definitely
>>     infrastructure on the modern Internet: accounts in unrelated
>>     services are using OAUTH services that depend on features tied to
>>     a particular social media system identity.  If that isn't
>>     infrastructure to you, then we're simply talking about different
>>     things.
>>
>>     >broadcast evolve, but the basic concept is the same: to use some
>>     medium to
>>     >send the same content to a lot of people more-or-less at the
>>     same time
>>
>>     But that is not, of course, the overwhelmingly dominant way that
>>     people use the Internet.  Clubhouse aside, people are just not
>>     setting their alarm clocks to make sure they watch their
>>     favourite Internet show when it comes on.  And they're not being
>>     tidy and careful about (in the case we're talking about) Candian
>>     content rules for who made the production and who were the
>>     performers and so on.  The traditional solution that Canada had
>>     for this was to use broadcast licensing to force the Canadian
>>     content to be carried into Canadian homes even if Canadians often
>>     didn't want it.  The Internet presents a challenge to that model,
>>     because the Internet doesn't impose a rigid distinction as to who
>>     is a "producer" and who a "consumer".  C-10 (and a host of other
>>     similar proposals in other countries) appear to be an attempt to
>>     re-impose those kinds of distinctions, frequently with implicit
>>     or explicit expectations that the network provide the necessary
>>     facilities to enforce the regulatory prefe
>>      rence.  To me, that is a threat to the Internet Way of
>>     Networking, and the Internet Society should oppose it.
>>
>>     I am sad that I appear unable to convince you of this, but I
>>     suppose we will have to agree to disagree.
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>
>>     A
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Andrew Sullivan
>>     President & CEO, Internet Society
>>     sullivan at isoc.org <mailto:sullivan at isoc.org>
>>     +1 416 731 1261
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> -- 
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
>
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Prof.dr.Borka Jerman-Blažič Ex-Head, Laboratory for Open systems and 
Networks Jožef Stefan Institute and Faculty of Economics, Ljubljana 
University Slovenia tel. +386 1 477 3408 tel. +386 1 477 3756 mob. +386 
41 678 410
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