[Chapter-delegates] ITU-T vs Internet

Thu Jul 15 05:22:07 PDT 2021

All
Glad you are speaking up. 90% of us are here because we want a robust
Internet for everyone. I certainly don't have all the answers.

ISOC is unique in that we have a $40 million/year subsidy from .org, far
more money than any other group primarily dedicated to pro-user advocacy.
I'm saying we should be playing a strong, direct role where we can make a
difference. ITU is one place, because we are welcome to advocate strongly
there.

For the last decade, ISOC at ITU has had almost no impact, because on
almost every issue except encryption our position has echoed the US
government. The US government has enough power, they don't need us, so we
are mostly wasting our time and money where we aren't making a difference.

I have a strong development agenda and generally support the goals of the
global South. 9 of 12 ISOC Board members are from the US or Europe. So are
most of the senior staff. Almost all are comfortable with the policy
positions of the Global North, or don't even notice the divide.

Two-thirds of Internet users are in the global South, as are the majority
of our chapters. Those voices should be strong in ISOC, but for the last
few years the opposite trend has prevailed. That's why I've been speaking
up.

Actually, ICANN, IETF, ITU, etc. play only a modest role in what most
affects people's Internet experience and opportunities. The carriers 20
years ago were dominant and the carrier organizations, especially 3GPP,
remain crucial. A few giant companies - Google, Facebook, Amazon - may now
have more effective power. In the West, governments have mostly backed away
and accepted corporate power, with some recent gestures in the EU and maybe
the US.

X.25 and the protocol wars, ITU vs ICANN for the DNS $billions, and some
other issues are no longer the most important.

Let's be strong on what has the most impact on today's users and connecting
the unconnected.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 5:55 AM Johan Jörgensen via Chapter-delegates <
chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Not just your view, Eric. The societal Impact of the Internet will just
> keep on increasing, defining life itself. ISOC needs to lead this
> discussion.
>
> At SIG Internet of Food we’re deeply worried about how digital aspects of
> food - un-checked - will tweak food production and food consumption on
> planet Earth. The ones controlling the bits and bytes of food will simply
> control the planet and all life on it. The issues with social media is just
> a mild breeze compared to what’s coming…
>
> All the best
>
> Johan Jorgensen
> Chair ISOC SIG Internet of Food
>
> tors 15 juli 2021 kl. 11:40 skrev Eric Tomson via Chapter-delegates <
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> The ITU-T (formerly CCITT) cares for standards in Telecom, mainly layers
>> 1 and 2 of the OSI model.
>>
>> The Internet/TCP/IP cares for protocols in internetworking, limited to
>> layers 3 to 7 of the OSI model (layers 5-6-7 being considered more or less
>> one unique layer in TCP/IP).
>>
>> There is extremely few overlap between ITU-T and Internet/TCP/IP, if any.
>>
>> The latter does not care how you transmit bits and bytes between the
>> routers : it can be Ethernet, FDDI, ATM, WiFi, 4G ; it can be electric
>> signals, radio waves, light waves ; it can be ANY telecom/datacom
>> technology.
>>
>> The role of the Internet/TCP/IP family of protocols is limited to the
>> above layers (3 to 7). It cares for datagram communication and packet
>> exchange, not for frames transmission nor bits transport.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Internet community has fought to keep control on the protocols, the
>> RFCs, but also the administration and the management of the Internet.
>>
>> As long as the IETF and the ICANN will run effectively, there are very
>> few chances that the ITU-T would be able to take control on the
>> Internet/TCP/IP world.
>>
>> The Internet Society should probably focus on all non-technical matters,
>> like the Internet usage, its social impact, its societal implications, etc.
>>
>> No other organization has the opportunity, the space and the legitimacy
>> to do so.
>>
>> Just my opinion, though 😉
>>
>>
>>
>> E.T.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org> *De
>> la part de* Frederic Taes via Chapter-delegates
>> *Envoyé :* jeudi 15 juillet 2021 09:49
>> *À :* Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com>
>> *Cc :* ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> *Objet :* [Chapter-delegates] ITU-T vs Internet
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>>
>>
>> As researcher I worked on several ITU-T standards, when ITU-T was
>> fighting against the Internet DOD model. Take a look at X.25, are we
>> talking about TCP/IP world? ITU-T is definitively NOT about Internet way of
>> networking.
>>
>>
>>
>> Read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.25 as basic example.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I’m looking on whom/what influences the most Internet today, it’s
>> IGF and ICANN coming first, far ahead a long list of other organisms. We
>> should work to place ISOC in the top.
>>
>>
>>
>> A book « four internets » has just been released (
>> https://www.southampton.ac.uk/wsi/research/four-internets.page), with
>> foreword from Vint Cerf. IMO, it is there that ISOC should be present. Like
>> 10 years ago with https://youtu.be/OInTXcZ4HZM
>>
>>
>>
>> Our member Eric Tomson (BTW, also founding member of PIR) just wrote an
>> excellent article on why ISOC is unique, we are working on translation.
>> I’ll post it here next week.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Frederic Taes
>>
>> ISOC.be President
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 13 juil. 2021 à 21:28, Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates <
>> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> a écrit :
>>
>> 
>>
>> The keynote speaker tomorrow, Doreen Bogdan-Martin of the ITU, can dispel
>> the current confusion at ISOC about Vladimir Putin using the ITU to take
>> over the Internet. With one exception in a decade, the ITU works by
>> consensus and the US + EU can and has blocked any nonsense.
>>
>>
>>
>> She also can explain how dozens of ISOC members can should attend the ITU
>> meetings because we could really make a difference. (Especially in the
>> study groups that make some important standards.)
>>
>>
>>
>> ISOC has a free membership in ITU, which wants more non-government
>> involvement. The Secretary-General reminded our CEO we can send as many
>> representatives as we like. (The US sends 100.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Currently. Andrew is blocking attendance by people like a founder of ISOC
>> Israel, a distinguished technologist. Our policy lead explained we can;t
>> allow even our most qualified members to attend, because they "might say
>> something that isn't ISOC policy."
>>
>>
>>
>> An easy and important way for ISOC to encourage membership, which has
>> been effectively stagnant or declining for many years.
>>
>>
>>
>> The great Cory Doctorow also is speaking, who has important ideas on how
>> to limit the power of web giants.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other than that, far too many lobbyists and uninformed ideologues. Every
>> reason to welcome right wingers like Michele Connelly, a respected
>> economist. But too many of the DC favorites get lost in their biases.
>>
>>
>>
>> We really need to move IGF away from the lobbyist town, perhaps to a tech
>> center like California.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Editor, AnalysisBranch.com, Wirelessone.news, fastnet.news
>> @analysisbranch telecom news worth a tweet
>>
>> Available for consulting.
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> --
> Johan Jorgensen
> johan.jorgensen at gmail.com +46 735 200 633
> www.linkedin.com/in/johanjorgensen
> www.smakapastockholm.se
> www.internet-of-food.org
> www.fundedbyme.com
> www.swedendemoday.com
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS):
> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
> View the Internet Society Code of Conduct:
> https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/
>
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