[Chapter-delegates] Discussion Paper: An analysis of the “New IP” proposal to the ITU-T

borka at e5.ijs.si borka at e5.ijs.si
Fri May 1 09:49:16 PDT 2020


+ 1


Borka



On Fri, 1 May 2020, Carlos Raul via Chapter-delegates wrote:

> +1
> 
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 17:16 Dave Burstein via Chapter-delegates
> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
> Olaf
> 
> We agree on the main issues here, but we need to do a much more
> effective job to win here. 
> 
> tl/dr unless the issues are important to you.
> 
>  I learned how to win policy issues through 20 years watching silver
> tongues like AT&T's legendary lobbyist Jim Cicconi. They approach the
> battle by researching carefully "what arguments will persuade the
> people we need to reach and they will believe." On telco control,
> which is the issue here, we have great pocketbook issues you've noted
> in your paper. Complexity and control drive up costs enormously.
> That's a great reason to stick with IP - it does a brilliant job
> adapting. Bob and Vint work is extraordinary, not just historic.
> 
>    Something like this needs support from far more people than might
> be persuaded by anything we might say about governance. Very few
> people care about ITU vs ICANN or IP vs Non-IP. "Internet governance"
> issues are so obscure even tech reporters rarely get them right. No
> politicians understand this stuff and 9 out of 10 won't accept some
> geeks educating them. As our board member Pepper (bcc'd) often says,
> "DC doesn't understand anything that won't fit on a bumper sticker."  
> 
>     We need to take a simple, clear position that non-experts will
> respond to.
>  *  We need to stop referring to "New IP," the Chinese proposal.
>     Instead, We should talk about "European Non-IP and Chinese New
>     IP." Otherwise, our positions can easily be confused with the U.S.
>     battle with China and we will immediately lose much of the
>     audience we need to reach to be effective. Someone we both respect
>     in a private note recently said the U.S.  can't lead effectively
>     here because it will be dismissed as "more anti-China rhetoric"
>     He's right. We need to make clear this is more than a U.S. China
>     issue. That's why I'm putting the Europeans first. 
>
>     Even better, we need to find a way to "frame the issue" that will
>     advance our goals by getting wider support. To win this, we need
>     to define the debate.  Very few people care about ITU vs ICANN or
>     IP vs Non-IP. "Internet governance" issues are so obscure even
>     tech reporters rarely get them right. 
>     No politicians understand this stuff and 9 out of 10 won't accept
>     some geeks educating them. As our board member Pepper (bcc'd)
>     often says, "DC doesn't understand anything that won't fit on a
>     bumper sticker."
> 
> Currently, the telcos and suppliers are doing a good job convincing
> some very intelligent people QoS is crucial for things like
> telemedicine and autonomous cars. (The best telecom economist in DC,
> for example.) It also appears obvious to a non-expert that better
> network control would bring down costs. I think those are dead wrong,
> but people are echoing the arguments. How do we answer them?
> 
> For example, I'm writing this as the "Telcos want to take over the
> Internet and charge more." Also, the complexity will make the system
> too expensive  That's not quite good enough. I care about these issues
> as they affect the cost of access, particularly for the less
> affluent. 
>
>  *  We need multiple participants at ITU and ETSI. At the first
>     meeting of FG2030 in New York, there were something like 20 from
>     China and maybe half a dozen from the U.S. and a similar number
>     from Europe. After the New York meeting, the ratio probably got
>     worse. Hamadoun at the 2014 Plenipot publicly urged Kathy to send
>     more people.
>     Incidentally, at that meeting I was the only person to raise
>     anything beyond technical issues like how to deliver holograms.
>     Brazil and India then backed my proposal, that one of the "use
>     cases" for 6G in FG2030 should be delivering systems inexpensive
>     enough for everyone. 
>     ITU needs civil society and actively encouraged us. ETSI was very
>     positive about ISOC in a private conversation.
>     We lose if this is perceived as U.S. and allies, especially if
>     Europe is split. Remember, at least 65% of the Internet (by almost
>     everyone's definition except AS) is not in the US and allies. The
>     BRICS by most measures now have more connections than the U.S. and
>     Western Europe combined. Our work on this should visibly come from
>     a group with Africans and Asians prominent. Our board members Olga
>     Cavalli (Argentina)  and Walid Al-Saqaf (Yemen) have the right
>     experience. India now has 400 million 4G connections, more than
>     the U.S. has people. They would be a crucial swing. I can think of
>     an extremely eloquent Indian advocate for Free Software but I
>     think the recommendations should come from our Indian chapters. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 11:59 AM Olaf Kolkman via Chapter-delegates
> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>       Colleagues
>
>       There were some requests for a public and archived space
>       for discussion of this paper. We set up a list that
>       doesn’t require ISOC membership to discuss this paper (and
>       potential future discussion papers).
>
>       Hence a friendly amendment to the text below:
>
>       We welcome any feedback on “An analysis of the “New IP”
>       proposal to the ITU-T”. Contact the authors directly using
>       newIP-discussion-paper at isoc.org or post to the
>       discussion-papers at elists.isoc.org mailing list, which is
>       public and archived.
>
>       —Olaf
>
>       On 28 Apr 2020, at 10:22, Olaf Kolkman wrote:
>
>             Dear Colleagues,
>
>             With the usual cross-post apologies[*].
>
>             In the run up to the ITU World
>             Telecommunication Standardization Assembly
>             (WTSA-20) later this year there has been some
>             discussion about a proposal called the “New
>             IP”. It is positioned as a top-down
>             architecture to solve a number of use cases
>             that are currently been developed in the
>             ITU-T’s Future Network 2030 Focus Group.
>
>             The Internet Society is carefully following
>             the developments in the run-up to WTSA-20. We
>             are trying to understand if and how the New IP
>             works with the Internet as we know it, if it
>             actually solves problems that cannot be solved
>             in the Internet, and, if the ITU-T is
>             developing standards, where other standards
>             development organizations (SDOs) have change
>             control.
>
>             In order to get a sense of the environment we
>             commissioned a discussion paper, “An analysis
>             of the ‘New IP’ proposal to the ITU-T.” The
>             paper helps inform us and the broader
>             community whilst the public debate around
>             these proposals shapes up. It also aims to
>             inform and shape the discussion from the
>             Internet’s Society’s perspective. Eventually
>             the debate around it will inform our position
>             and the potential further evolution of the
>             discussion paper itself. Note that the paper
>             documents the Internet Society’s emerging
>             opinion, but does not represent a final
>             Internet Society position. Instead, we intend
>             it as a means to gather information and
>             insight from our community on the topic.
>
>             We welcome any feedback on “An analysis of the
>             ‘New IP’ via the email address
>             NewIP-Discussion-Paper at isoc.org
>
>             —Olaf Kolkman
>
>             [*] This mail has been sent to various
>             relevant mailing lists and featured as a blog
>             on the Internet Society website.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>
>             Olaf M. Kolkman Tweets as: @kolkman
>             Principal - Internet Technology, Policy, and
>             Advocacy
>             Internet Society
>             https://www.internetsociety.org
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> Olaf M. Kolkman
> Principal - Internet Technology, Policy, and Advocacy
> Internet Society
> Tweets as: @kolkman
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
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