[Chapter-delegates] Bank Accounts was - deadline for admin funding
Winthrop Yu
w.yu at gmx.net
Sat Jul 11 02:15:59 PDT 2020
Thank you Andrew, a few clarifications if you please ...
> "/... //the terms of engagement were developed jointly with Chapters ...
> //This is the compromise we’ve settled on .../"
IIRC, the "Chapters Letter" was largely a top-down set of conditions set by ISOC
HQ. If there were any compromises made on the Chapter Letter, i do not recall
them at the moment and would appreciate being reminded of them.
There was certainly much discussion around the "mandated bank account"
requirement, this being one of the, if not the main "sticking point". During one
of those calls i recall ISOC HQ (Chrstine?) mentioning that alternatives would
be provided for this "bank account in the chapters' name" requirement. Again
IIRC, "alternatives" mentioned included possibly coursing funds thru a fully and
legally registered NGO in that country (perhaps somewhat similar to the "fiscal
sponsorship" mentioned by Judith and Joly)' or to a bank account jointly in the
name of two or more chapter officers certified by that chapter.
This option of alternatives to a bank account in the chapters' name was
reassuring, and yet now we are informed that even those chapters who do already
have a bank account in their name but are not formally registered as a "legal
organization" may be denied funding. It seems the requirement then is really --
legally-registered status in that country, regardless of the name on the bank
account. If so, then would have been straightforward had this condition been
made clear form the beginning.
One question that comes to mind then is -- if there is a strict prohibition
against ISOC HQ funding chapters that are not legally-registered, or whether
this is something else such as a risk mitigation measure?
In the meantime, considering the relatively small amounts already being allotted
to chapters, i think you will agree that having 25% or more of the global
chapters condemned to never receiving any funding at all is hardly a
satisfactory situation. And, if we were to relegate the matter to (assume ChAC)
working group, would any such discussions or subsequent recommendations from
ChAC actually be able to change the decisions made by ISOC HQ, particularly the
hard requirement for legal incorporation?
Are there any other alternatives to the legal incorporation requirement? We had
previously discussed this matter with Stine, who after a time simply replied
that the requirement stands as-is.
Any clarification would be much appreciated,
WYn
On 8 Jul 2020 5:23 am, Andrew Sullivan via Chapter-delegates wrote:
> This is not a change in policy: SIGs and Chapters are different.
>
> I really do understand the difficulty that is being faced by some Chapters,
> but the terms of engagement were developed jointly with Chapters. They are in
> part limited by our incorporation location and US tax law, as well as the
> independent status of Chapters and their role in ISOC governance. This is the
> compromise we’ve settled on, but if Chapters have a consensus to change that
> compromise to a different one then perhaps that can be part of the governance
> reform WG?
>
> Best regards,
>
> A
>
> —
> Andrew Sullivan
> Please excuse my clumbsy thums
>
> <snip>
>
>> On 7/3/2020 11:23 AM, Christine Saegesser via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> The Chapter Admin Funding programme is there to support the Chapter’s
>>> day to day running of the Chapter itself.
>>>
>>> While the Admin funding programme was launched in Oct 2016 with an
>>> application deadline in Dec 2016, the programme always closed in either
>>> May or June in the following years.
>>>
>>> The main reasons for closing it in June are:
>>> • feedback we have received from Chapters is that they would like to
>>> receive their Admin Funding in the first part of the year to be able to
>>> carry out their plans throughout the year.
>>> • budget management and visibility (it’s is a large total amount of
>>> money to allocate without knowing how many Chapters will apply)
>>> • end of year accounting volume – there is a tendency for Chapters to
>>> apply at deadline. Over the past years, we typically received 70% of the
>>> Chapter applications within the last 3 days before the deadline, and
>>> this across the various Chapter funding programmes. If the programme
>>> closes towards the end of the year, this means a considerable number of
>>> invoices that need to be paid on top of normal end of year closing.
>>>
>>> Last year, we opened a 2nd round of Chapter Admin Funding to accommodate
>>> particular circumstances faced by the Chapters. Based on the feedback
>>> here, we will look into opening a second round later in the year for
>>> 2020 too. And, as mentioned in my earlier message, we will have a look
>>> at the overall funding schedule for next year.
>>>
>>> In the meantime, 73% of Chapters have successfully submitted their
>>> applications for 2020 by the 30 June deadline and we will work with the
>>> Chapters who faced challenges to submit their applications on time due
>>> to the very difficult global circumstances to identify solutions. Please
>>> reach out to Stine Philipsen <philipsen at isoc.org
>>> <mailto:philipsen at isoc.org>> over the next two weeks if this is your
>>> Chapter’s case.
>>>
>>> Also, concerning the need for a bank account on the name of the Chapter:
>>> What the Chapter Charter Letter says is that the Chapter agrees to
>>> “Establish a bank account or other equivalent financial account in the
>>> name of the Chapter to receive and disburse funds, including funding
>>> provided by the Internet Society.” (see point 3.1.V
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2018-2020-ISOC_Chapter_Charter_Agreement-Apr2020.pdf)
>>> Any "equivalent financial account" would have to be legal and secure
>>> (and auditable), and the Chapter would need to make and receive payments
>>> to and from it in the name of the Chapter as a legal organization.
>>>
>>> Wyn, to your question:
>>>> In this vein, i am also seeking clarification of your second bullet
>>>> point below -- "For Chapters in a country where legal registration is
>>>> not necessary to open a bank account in the official name of the
>>>> Chapter ..." -- is this worded correctly (with the "not); or should
>>>> that instead read -- "For Chapters in a country where legal
>>>> registration is necessary to open a bank account in the official name
>>>> of the Chapter ...".
>>>
>>> This is not a typo. In most cases, a local legal registration is needed
>>> for the bank to be able to open a bank account in the name of the
>>> Chapter. However, in some countries it is possible to constitute a group
>>> that doesn’t need a legal registration in order to be able to open a
>>> Chapter bank account. In South Africa for example, it is possible to
>>> create "Voluntary Associations" that can open bank accounts in the name
>>> of their entity without any formal legal registration. Chapters who
>>> operate in a similar legal context are invited to reach out to us by
>>> contacting Stine Philipsen (philipsen at isoc.org
>>> <mailto:philipsen at isoc.org>) to discuss their particular case.
>>>
>>> I hope this helps clarify some of the points raised.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Christine
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3. Jul 2020, at 14:57, Christian via Chapter-delegates
>>>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am sympathetic to the needs of chapters that for whatever reason
>>>> can't viably work within their own registered formal entity locally.
>>>>
>>>> ISOC London was informal as it became ISOC England which did formalise
>>>> in 1999 before it became a chartered chapter (there was already a
>>>> formal ISOC Scotland organisation since defunct). ISOC England again
>>>> became "informal" in the mid2000s and stayed informal as the core of
>>>> the current team refreshed it from 2011 until a couple of years ago.
>>>>
>>>> A sufficient stable revenue that would at least meet our regularised
>>>> costs for at least 3 years beyond the current financial year was for
>>>> us an essential pre condition before we formalised.
>>>>
>>>> So far that has happened according to plan.
>>>>
>>>> One thought I've had that might help with chartered but informally
>>>> structured chapters.
>>>>
>>>> ISOC regional offices could set up a regional secretariat entity that
>>>> was managed by ISOC staff with chapter leadership engagement to handle
>>>> the financial formalities for informal chapters.
>>>>
>>>> With grants managed from that with chapter and ISOC trustee oversight.
>>>> It should satisfy concerns for accountability and getting the money
>>>> doing useful things?
>>>>
>>>> If an informal chapter starts to get viable longer term support locally
>>>> that will allow it to sustain its own structure and governance then it
>>>> can always do that at a later date.
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 03/07/2020 12:46, sivasubramanian muthusamy via Chapter-delegates wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In the case of the Chennai Chapter, we have opted NOT to incorporate,
>>>>> because incorporation / formation as an NGO / Trust requires
>>>>> systematic paperwork, filing of monthly / quarterly reports or what we
>>>>> call "returns" and might involve visits to one or more Government
>>>>> offices, additional procedures for receiving / sending money from / to
>>>>> accounts outside the country. That makes it difficult for a Chapter
>>>>> of volunteers to commit to such processes that might require a Chapter
>>>>> Accountant, and in addition would require the Chapter to engage the
>>>>> services of a Chartered Accountant and in some cases a Lawyer.
>>>>> Professionals with a sense of responsibility, commitment and
>>>>> thoroughness, who also have a sense of Accountability are expensive in
>>>>> terms of the fee payable. As a Chapter, who have handled a sum total
>>>>> of about $ 6000 in 12 years, it was unwise to seek to commit to these
>>>>> processes, which would have required us to spend about $5000 a year in
>>>>> professional fees alone merely to meet the compliance requirements.
>>>>> The $ 5000 / year indicated here is arbitrary, one could argue that
>>>>> there are professionals of lesser standards who can be engaged at
>>>>> about $500 a year or even less (not denying that the fee charged is
>>>>> not always a measure of the standards of service extended, but it is
>>>>> often true that reliable services require a good outlay for
>>>>> professional fees); It can also be argued that much more than $ 5000
>>>>> a year is to be set aside towards professional fees, and even
>>>>> additional provisions may be required for legal services; With this
>>>>> rationale, though not conclusively decided not to incorporate in some
>>>>> form, we have been hesitating; We do have a bank account, though I am
>>>>> not saying this to ask for admin funding right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>>>> Internet Society India Chennai
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 3:35 PM Winthrop Yu via Chapter-delegates
>>>>> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your comprehensive reply Christine.
>>>>>
>>>>> During the campaign for signing by all Chapters of the Chapter
>>>>> Letter, correct me if i misheard or do not remember correctly, but
>>>>> i distinctly recall your mentioning that alternative procedures
>>>>> would be made available for those Chapters in countries where a
>>>>> bank account requires full incorporation. I mention this again as
>>>>> in some developing countries such a registration, particularly for
>>>>> non-profit entities, is extremely onerous. This is does not just
>>>>> entail red-tape and the usual mandatory regulatory requirements,
>>>>> but the surrender of personal privacy; for example a requirement
>>>>> that all officers of such an entity sign waivers allowing scrutiny
>>>>> of all personal bank accounts. In a country where there is
>>>>> reasonable rule of law, this may perhaps be barely reasonable. In
>>>>> a country where the government can and does "weaponize" the law,
>>>>> this represents a significant risk and threat against the officers
>>>>> of such an entity.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this vein, i am also seeking clarification of your second
>>>>> bullet point below -- "/For Chapters in a country where legal
>>>>> registration is *not* necessary to open a bank account in the
>>>>> official name of the Chapter .../" -- is this worded correctly
>>>>> (with the "not); or should that instead read -- "/For Chapters in
>>>>> a country where legal registration *is* necessary to open a bank
>>>>> account in the official name of the Chapter .../".
>>>>>
>>>>> Kindly advise, thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> WYn/
>>>>> /
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3 Jul 2020 5:20 pm, Christine Saegesser via Chapter-delegates
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Chapter Leaders,
>>>>>> Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts around the Chapter Admin
>>>>>> Funding Programme (and other funding programs), please know that
>>>>>> all your feedback is noted and taken into consideration for
>>>>>> future improvements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We will be in touch with the Chapter Advisory Council Steering
>>>>>> Committeelater this year to agree on a timeline that works better
>>>>>> for everyone for 2021.
>>>>>> Based on the comments on the list, we also wish to share some
>>>>>> clarifications that are hopefully to everyone’s benefit:
>>>>>> Bank Accounts and Funding Eligibility:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * The requirement to have a bank account in the name of the
>>>>>> Chapter/SIG is not a new requirement. This was introduced in
>>>>>> 2018 as reflected in the updated Charter Letters, and
>>>>>> required for the Internet Society and the Internet Society
>>>>>> Foundation to comply with their own accounting and liability
>>>>>> requirements (see point 3.1.V
>>>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2018-2020-ISOC_Chapter_Charter_Agreement-Apr2020.pdf).
>>>>>> * For Chapters in a country where legal registration is not
>>>>>> necessary to open a bank account in the official name of the
>>>>>> Chapter, please reach out to Stine Philipsen
>>>>>> (philipsen at isoc.org <mailto:philipsen at isoc.org>) with some
>>>>>> background on the local setting your Chapter is operating in.
>>>>>> We evaluate these circumstances on a case-by-case basis.
>>>>>> * Concerning the 2019 round of evaluations: Pleasekeep in mind
>>>>>> that additional time was needed to evaluate the applications
>>>>>> last year since we were missing documentation (legal
>>>>>> registration and matching bank account) from a number of
>>>>>> Chapters. We needed to have these documents on file for
>>>>>> being able to disburse funds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internet Society & Internet Society Foundation Funding Programs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * The Foundation handles project-related funding for Chapters
>>>>>> as well as additional funding programs open to a wider
>>>>>> audience. This includes Beyond the Net, SCILLS, IGF and
>>>>>> COVID19 Emergency Response, please refer to 'Funding Areas'
>>>>>> on the Foundation website
>>>>>> <https://www.isocfoundation.org/funding-areas/>.
>>>>>> * The Internet Society manages the Chapter Admin Funding (for
>>>>>> the day to day running of Chapters/SIGs) and the Chapterthon.
>>>>>> For Chapter Admin Funding, please refer to 'Chapter Admin
>>>>>> Funding' on the Internet Society website.
>>>>>> <https://www.internetsociety.org/grants/chapter-admin-funding/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Deadline for Chapter Admin Funding:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * The 30 June deadline (including funding requirements) has
>>>>>> been communicated via numerous Chapter Updates, regional
>>>>>> calls and updates, and is listed on the website under the
>>>>>> Chapter Admin Funding section. If you consider there to be
>>>>>> gaps in our communication around important deadlines, we
>>>>>> welcome your suggestions on how you wish to receive this
>>>>>> information. Please share this feedback directly with your
>>>>>> Regional Community Engagement Managers.
>>>>>> * From a systems perspective, the 'Valid until July 01, 2020'
>>>>>> is to ensure the program remains open and all applications
>>>>>> submitted within the 30 June 2020 deadline are well-received
>>>>>> _across all time zones_.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> General comment:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * As Stine mentioned in her e-mail to the list on 1 July, we
>>>>>> kindly ask those Chapters facing issues linked to the unusual
>>>>>> circumstances the world is facing this year to contact her
>>>>>> (Stine Philipsen) directly at <philipsen at isoc.org
>>>>>> <mailto:philipsen at isoc.org>> by 15 July, so we can evaluate
>>>>>> potential solutions for their Admin Funding requests.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for your collaboration. As mentioned, your feedback
>>>>>> and suggestions are noted and taken into consideration for future
>>>>>> improvements of our Chapter Admin Funding program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Christine Saegesser Baethge*, Sr. Director Chapters and
>>>>>> Individual Members
>>>>>> saegesser at isoc.org <mailto:saegesser at isoc.org> | Twitter: ch_saebae
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>> internetsociety.org <http://internetsociety.org/> | @internetsociety
>>>>>
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