[Chapter-delegates] ChAC-SC Advice notice

Wed Feb 26 18:38:26 PST 2020

Agreed.  There was a consensus.  Unanimous only applies when there has been call for votes and there are no “no” votes.

John More

> On Feb 26, 2020, at 8:59 PM, Mike Godwin <mnemonic at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been confused, however, by the use of the term "unanimous consensus."
> 
> In general, even though "consensus" does not signify that a formal vote was taken, "unanimous" signifies the opposite, per standard United Nations nomenclature and throughout civil society. 
> 
> In my own practice of international law, I've never encountered the usage "unanimous consensus" in any normal proceeding, but the general rule is that when "unanimous" is used, a formal vote was taken, and there was no dissent. Is the understanding that you mean to communicate simply that there was no dissent about anything at all regarding the ChAC's advice? Other lawyers here of course may take different views, and I look forward to improving my understanding of the language used here.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mike Godwin
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:22 PM John More via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
> Richard
> 
> My apologies.  You are absolutely correct that the consensus call (including silence) is to be taken as approval of the recommendations. When helping draft the policies and procedures for the ChAC, i fully supported consensus as the proper procedure for obtaining approval, unless there was a call for a formal vote.  There was no call for a vote in this instance.
> 
> I note further that the draft recommendations were circulated.  There were calls for comments.  Richard did a great job incorporating comments. An adequate time was given to express opposition to the consensus. An reminders were sent out for the deadline
> 
> I am afraid my comment, which was entirely personal, came from my wishing there had been more active engagement .
> 
> So, again, the consensus procedure was correct and stands as approval by the Chapters of the proposed recommendations.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> John
> 
>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:01 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch <mailto:rhill at hill-a.ch>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear John,
>>  
>> I disagree with your inference below. The consensus call clearly indicated that lack of opposition (silence) would indicate approval. That’s not an unusual way to seek approval, it it is used in many circumstances.  And it is the method foreseen in the ChAC’s operating rules.
>>  
>> So, if we believe  in rules and procedures, then we must accept that the advice represents the consensus of the Chapters.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Richard
>>  
>> From: Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org <mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>] On Behalf Of John More via Chapter-delegates
>> Sent: mercredi, 26. février 2020 15:30
>> To: Gonzalo Camarillo
>> Cc: Chapters AC Elist; Chapter Delegates
>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ChAC-SC Advice notice
>>  
>> Gonzalo
>>  
>> The failure of the large majority of Chapter delegates to communicate in the call for consensus does indicate that the recommendations do not reflect a broad consensus in the ISOC community.  They reflect the concerns of the more activist Chapters.
>>  
>> Yours,
>>  
>> John More
>> Delegate, ISOC-DC
>>  
>> 
>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 6:14 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo via Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> wrote:
>>  
>> Hi Eduardo,
>>  
>> thanks for putting together the three documents with advice to the Board. The Board will discuss them and get back to you in order to continue the dialog.
>>  
>> In addition, as you know, we have been working for several years with you and the previous ChAC chairs to find ways for us to engage the community more effectively. Unfortunately, that still seems to be a challenge. Per the thread below, where you seem to have discussed this advice, around 80 to 85% of our 124 chapters did not participate in the discussions or express any opinion on the advice at all:
>> https://connect.internetsociety.org/communities/community-home?CommunityKey=2ee50649-4a00-4918-83a5-4c8a9a7c7a4c <https://connect.internetsociety.org/communities/community-home?CommunityKey=2ee50649-4a00-4918-83a5-4c8a9a7c7a4c>
>>  
>> We hope to continue working with you on finding ways to engage a much larger fraction of our community in the future, especially when dealing with important issues.
>>  
>> With the above in mind, it is unfortunately inappropriate to say that this advice was approved by *unanimous* consensus since most of the community did not even participate in the discussions (after receiving your advice, several people from different chapters indeed told me they had actually not noticed the discussions on the advice at all). Therefore, I am cc'ing the 'Chapter Delegates' mailing list on this email so that as many people as possible from our community are aware of these advice and our upcoming response.
>>  
>> I have also noticed that you decided not to include any information that was made available after February 10th, including the recently announced PIC. Well, we can discuss that on the webinar on Friday. I am looking forward to that.
>>  
>> Cheers,
>>  
>> Gonzalo
>> Chair - ISOC Board of Trustees
>>  
>>  
>> From: Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>> 
>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 04:22
>> To: Gonzalo Camarillo <gonzalo.camarillo at ericsson.com <mailto:gonzalo.camarillo at ericsson.com>>; Kevin Craemer <Craemer at isoc.org <mailto:Craemer at isoc.org>>
>> Cc: Chapters AC Elist <ChaptersAC-SC at elists.isoc.org <mailto:ChaptersAC-SC at elists.isoc.org>>
>> Subject: ChAC-SC Advice notice
>>  
>> Distinguished Members of the Board:
>>  
>> The Chapter Advisory Council Steering Committee (ChAC-SC) is submitting the following advice for your consideration:
>>  
>> Advice 2020.02.13-01 :: The sale of PIR to Ethos Capital should not proceed unless a number of conditions are met. <https://isoc.box.com/s/amwx365bl2w38gh3laxneo2pv1q4w1jy>
>> Advice 2020.02.13-02 :: ISOC constituencies must be consulted <https://isoc.box.com/s/3gey7i3gbqomurwfhhuvxqq49ms0hwm3>
>> Advice 2020.02.13-03 :: Changes to ISOC’s Bylaws to strengthen Advisory Councils and Chapters <https://isoc.box.com/s/fhl9ako4i1a4m2ivxuaez42y4vapeoyb>
>>  
>> The Full Chapter Advisory Council (Full ChAC) approved all Advice by unanimous consensus. No objections were received by the set deadline.
>>  
>> Please note that Advice #1 is based on information available as of 10 February 2020.
>>  
>> Thank you for the opportunity to work with you to make ISOC a better organization.
>>  
>>  
>> Eduardo Díaz
>> Chair
>> ChAC-SC
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