[Chapter-delegates] Today: IGF Berlin Dynamic Coalition joint meeting of the DCs on Core Internet Values and the Internet of Things.

Fri Nov 29 00:58:28 PST 2019

A more general question, following from your comment:

IoT connections, cellular, wired or spatial could be enabled, as
connections to individuals or organizations or public entities, i.e. as
connectivity to people and not as connectivity to devices, for
Accountability ? A complex architectural question, needs to be appreciated
with utmost concern for Core Internet Values.

Sivasubramanian M

On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 2:12 PM Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com> wrote:

> Coming in now, but I've said most of what I wanted to say here.
> DC, ISOC, IGF etc rarely understand what is happening in Asia. China is
> going to have 150M 5G in 2019, well over half the world.
> China Mobile has over 700M cellular IoT while no one else has over 50M.
> Understanding how they did that is how I know cellular IoT connections must
> be cheap to compete with Wi-Fi.
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 3:07 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy via
> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Dave,
>>
>> Please do join the session, if you are there in Berlin, and feel free to
>> intervene, we will find your views valuable.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>> twitter.com/shivaindia
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 1:07 PM Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Folks
>>> Good to discuss something beyond the PIR deal.
>>>
>>> I'm partly involved in policy but mostly work on the tech side. From the
>>> practical point of view, here are things that must change deliver what we
>>> want.
>>>
>>> We need to include more people directly involved in making IoT devices
>>> and building the networks. For example, successful IoT connections need to
>>> cost $5 or much less. (My reporting and research). Who hear will speak up
>>> when implementing the discussion raises the cost so high it will almost
>>> surely be ineffective? If we don't have strong input from the engineers in
>>> the real world, it's easy to be discussing ideas likely to be ignored.. How
>>> do we fix that?
>>>
>>> Something that belongs in the heart of the IoT discussion is the crucial
>>> position of 3GPP & the wireless phone companies. In the 3GPP standards
>>> discussion, technical decisions have been made that in practice pre-empt
>>> many of the goals being discussed here. On a practical level, the 3GPP
>>> standard is where the action is on much of this. Much of the implementation
>>> of "security by design" will occur at the network and equipment design
>>> level.
>>>
>>> Put another way, the IGF discussion is likely to focus on "high order
>>> principles" when most of the practical decisions are being made in
>>> standards and implementation. Most "high-order principles" are so general
>>> it's difficult to project their interpretation in practical systems. It
>>> even more difficult to take effective action or enforcement of very vague
>>> ideas.
>>>
>>> So:  How do people who care about accountable development purchase and
>>> use of iot get involved with the practical decisions, mostly made in 3GPP
>>> (wireless), IEEE 802.11 (Wi-Fi), and ITU Study Groups (important.) ?
>>> The right answer: Either through ISOC or other means, make sure the
>>> public interest is represented in 3GPP. I have already spoken with some of
>>> the leaders, who agree this should happen. I can't do it myself; I barely
>>> have the travel budget to get to meetings.
>>>
>>> 3GPP is entirely corporate controlled, mostly by about a dozen giants.
>>> (Qualcomm, Huawei, AT&T, Ericsson, China Mobile ...). The public
>>> interest/civil society is totally unrepresented.
>>> Vint Cerf has said 3GPP should be multi-stakeholder. How can we make it
>>> so?
>>>
>>> Also, Andrew Sullivan has just written on the need for all to work
>>> together collaboratively.
>>> <https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2018/11/we-wont-save-the-internet-by-breaking-it/> But
>>> the speakers are overwhelmingly from the US and Europe (or closely
>>> connected.) The global South is now two-thirds of the Internet and growing
>>> much faster than the US & Europe. I've long believed that initiatives
>>> without strong participation from the global South will fall short. How do
>>> we avoid a mostly US & European group trying to make rules for the rest of
>>> the world?
>>>
>>> Particularly missing is the 25-40% of the Internet that is Chinese or
>>> the emerging colossus which is India. (Over 400M 4G connections in the last
>>> four years.) The strong majority of devices for IoT and wireless are now
>>> manufactured in China. Even European companies like Ericsson and Nokia make
>>> sure to conform to Chinese standards so they can sell in China.
>>>
>>> How do we bridge that gap so that the ideas here are put into practice.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 1:28 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy via
>>> Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please join us for the Joint DC-IoT / DC-CIV meeting at the IGF Berlin
>>>>
>>>> Today
>>>>
>>>> Friday November 29, 2019 09:30 - 13:00
>>>> Raum IV Sonnenallee 225, 12057 Berlin, Germany
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Details:
>>>> www.intgovforum.org/multilingual/content/igf-2019-data-governance-on-the-internet-space-by-the-internet-model
>>>>
>>>> https://www.intgovforum.org/multilingual/content/igf-2019-accountable-development-purchase-and-use-of-iot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Part I 9:30-11:00 - IOT - Avri Doria as moderator.
>>>> Part II  11.30 - 1 am  - Olivier Crepin-LeBlond as moderator.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Intro by MB & OCL (10 minutes total)
>>>>
>>>> 2. What prerequisites are important from a security perspective, to
>>>> ensure that IoT can be trusted not to be harmful to its users, nor the
>>>> wider Internet; for example by, being weaponised as a tool for DDOS attacks
>>>> or being used as attack vector on the users, themselves?
>>>>
>>>> 3. Actions that support a secure Internet (of Things), globally, across
>>>> silos and geographies - what needs to be done (security by design for the
>>>> world)
>>>>
>>>> 4. Open Discussion on IoT Security by Design
>>>>
>>>> 5. Sum up part 1 (5 minutes)
>>>>
>>>> 6. Preparing for Part II - Does IoT Security by Design break Core
>>>> Internet Values? What ethical considerations are important in the
>>>> deployment and use of IoT?
>>>>
>>>> --- 11 am Coffee BREAK ---
>>>>
>>>> Part II 11:30-13:00 - CIV - OCL moderating
>>>>
>>>> 1. Reviewing Part I on IoT (short summary and conclusions of Part 1) -
>>>> Maarten Botterman
>>>>
>>>> 2. Reminder of Core Internet Values (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy -
>>>> remotely)
>>>>
>>>> 3. What ethical considerations are important for development,
>>>> deployment and use of IoT, in order to ensure that we are creating
>>>> sustainable solutions with IoT? Aspects to be considered range from
>>>> affordability and deployability where needed, to transparency of choice;
>>>> clarity on data sharing and protection of privacy.
>>>>
>>>> (We will also examine Data Issues from the perspective of Stability and
>>>> Resilience, by the topic "Data Governance on the Internet Space, by the
>>>> Internet Model" with a view to argue for a harmonized global IG approach to
>>>> Data Governance)
>>>>
>>>> 4. A summarised 6F Framework proposal - Alejandro Pisanty (3 pages)
>>>>
>>>> 5. Looking ahead – which issues will become relevant in the future for
>>>> IoT development, affecting the broader Internet. This provides an open
>>>> microphone for new issues to address in the context of future use of IoT
>>>> and recognition of Core Internet Values.
>>>>
>>>> 6. Open Discussion
>>>>
>>>> -- end ---
>>>>
>>>> Confirmed speakers as follows:
>>>>
>>>> DC - IoT panelists include Chair: Maarten Botterman. Speakers,
>>>> including: government officials, Frederic Donck, Internet Society, Eddan
>>>> Katz, World Economic Forum, Max Senges, Google, Marco Hogewoning RIPE NCC,
>>>> Jonathan Cave, University of Warwick, and others.
>>>>
>>>> DC - Core Internet Values panelists:
>>>>
>>>> Alejandro Pisanty, UNAM, Mexico (confirmed)
>>>> Jimson Olufuye PhD CEO Kontemporary, Africa ICT Alliance, Nigeria
>>>> (confirmed)
>>>> Marilyn Cade, CEO, mCADE llc, United States (apologies)
>>>> Matthew Shears, ICANN Board, United Kingdom (confirmed)
>>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy (confirmed remote participant)
>>>> Thomas Rickert, Attorney at Law, Owner Rickert RA-GmbH, Germany
>>>> (confirmed)
>>>> Vint Cerf, Google, United States (confirmed for this part only)
>>>> Fiona Alexander in her new role. ( formal confirmation awaited)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>>>> twitter.com/shivaindia
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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