[Chapter-delegates] Problems with new membership system

Thu May 2 10:18:49 PDT 2019

I tried to renew all subscriptions of members since 2011 expiring during
2019, there were about 300 records or so in the list, the* extend *command
from the drop down box with select all mode, brought up a dialog box that
wanted me to confirm by writing the word 'delete', I took my chances and
wrote that to confirm the 'extend" command, all I see is a progress circle
for the last 60 minutes. Some screen shots attached. Are there enough
computing resources committed to the ams server? Why is this confusing
instruction to confirm an "extend" command with the word 'delete'?

Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
twitter.com/shivaindia

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 5:15 PM Lincoln McNey <mcney at isoc.org> wrote:

> Hi Siva —
>
> As of last week, all Pending applications that came in after *June 25th
> 2018 *(six calendar months prior to the cut-off date of the new system)
> are available in the new system.  Please check your chapter.  Any
> applications prior to that date were not migrated as part of system cleanup.
>
> Thanks —
>
> Lincoln
>
>
> Lincoln McNey
> Director, Global IT
> The Internet Society
> +41.7986.33390
> mcney at isoc.org
>
> On 26 Mar 2019, at 11:36, sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Lincoln,
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 2:36 PM sivasubramanian muthusamy <
> 6.internet at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Lincoln,
>>
>> Thank you for your reply.  Please see inline:
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 5:16 PM Lincoln McNey <mcney at isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> HI Siva —
>>>
>>> Please see my answers below - some of these were answered by Joyce in an
>>> earlier post (particularly around the number of chapter members), but some
>>> others I’ll provide more detail on.
>>>
>>> Thanks —
>>>
>>> Lincoln
>>>
>>> Lincoln McNey
>>> Director, Global IT
>>> The Internet Society
>>> mcney at isoc.org
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. AMS shows the total number of India Chennai Chapter members as 371,
>>>> down from about 700.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This has been already been addressed by both Joyce and Malisa in this
>>> channel
>>>
>>> 2. We have a long pending issue over our choice to retain the list of
>>>> applicants AFTER the pending applications are processed to admit applicants
>>>> from the pertinent geographic region. (We wanted to retain the names for
>>>> our records / reference / future decision )
>>>>
>>>
>>> We are still in the process of migrating Applicants from the former
>>> system - we’ve had to schedule this in with other priority items
>>> post-launch.  We apologise for any delays.  This remains the only
>>> outstanding item left from the migration.
>>>
>>> 3. Processing applicants is far more difficult, as the table does not
>>>> provide a summary overview of the applicant city, email address etc. but
>>>> instead the columns are Name, Account, Subscription, period from and period
>>>> to (irrelevant and unnecessary columns) giving no information to make a
>>>> quick glance judgement for bulk action. If a Chapter looks at pending
>>>> members once a month, and if there is an accumulation of 100 applicants, it
>>>> would take 5-6 hours of work just to click on each name to find the
>>>> necessary details such as the applicant city. This is not functional.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *City* information is provided when you look at your Active Members
>>> list.  It’s not in the “table format” of the former system, but it’s a
>>> different system and many things have changed.  However, the City data is
>>> there, provided the member has given it.  Please try configuring your view
>>> as shown below.  Note you can choose to display only Pending members this
>>> way - it just depends on what “Subscription status” filter you choose:
>>>
>>> <PastedGraphic-2.png>
>>>
>>> The City for your Pending members will also be shown in the results list.
>>>
>>> 4.  Data can not be sorted as per the needs of the Chapter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let us know what sorting options you’d prefer to see, along with a few
>>> simple use cases.  We are actively logging this kind of feedback for future
>>> releases.
>>>
>>
>> 4. *The number of applicants in the "pending" list was 1500+, now it
>> shows 19 applicants.  What is even more strange is this:  9 out of the 19
>> pending applicants are applicants who applied after February 4, 2019.  For
>> the period 2010 - Jan 2019, 10 out 1500 names are migrated to the new
>> portal, how Staff decided to select these 10 names out of 1500 is not
>> known.*  -----  HOW did this happen?
>>
>
> Awaiting your response.  If you could restore the previous data, it would
> enable us to do a final scan of the 1500 applicants remaining after
> processing over time, and pass it on to other Indian chapters who may find
> the applicants relevant to their region.  Also, it is still unexplained as
> to how the 19 applicants were handpicked and by whom?
>
> If the Old AMS is still accessible, please share with me the link to the
> old AMS?
>
> Thank you.
> Sivasubramanian M
>
>
>
>>
>>>> 5.  There is no list of memberships coming up for renewal.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In your dashboard there is a section called *Extend Members.*  Just
>>> click that to see who needs renewing.  Ultimately that is filtering chapter
>>> subscriptions on the Expired status.
>>>
>>> <PastedGraphic-3.png>
>>>
>>> Thanks —
>>>
>>> Lincoln
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 Mar 2019, at 06:30, sivasubramanian muthusamy <6.internet at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Joyce
>>>
>>> Is there any resolution on this? Please see below the message I posted
>>> on Feb 13.  I need to send communication to our members, to a more complete
>>> list.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 7:10 AM sivasubramanian muthusamy <
>>> 6.internet at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. AMS shows the total number of India Chennai Chapter members as 371,
>>>> down from about 700.
>>>>
>>>> 2. We have a long pending issue over our choice to retain the list of
>>>> applicants AFTER the pending applications are processed to admit applicants
>>>> from the pertinent geographic region. (We wanted to retain the names for
>>>> our records / reference / future decision ) *The number of applicants
>>>> in the "pending" list was 1500+, now it shows 19 applicants.  What is even
>>>> more strange is this:  9 out of the 19 pending applicants are applicants
>>>> who applied after February 4, 2019.  For the period 2010 - Jan 2019, 10 out
>>>> 1500 names are migrated to the new portal, how Staff decided to select
>>>> these 10 names out of 1500 is not known.*
>>>>
>>>> 3. Processing applicants is far more difficult, as the table does not
>>>> provide a summary overview of the applicant city, email address etc. but
>>>> instead the columns are Name, Account, Subscription, period from and period
>>>> to (irrelevant and unnecessary columns) giving no information to make a
>>>> quick glance judgement for bulk action. If a Chapter looks at pending
>>>> members once a month, and if there is an accumulation of 100 applicants, it
>>>> would take 5-6 hours of work just to click on each name to find the
>>>> necessary details such as the applicant city. This is not functional.
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Data can not be sorted as per the needs of the Chapter.
>>>>
>>>> 5.  There is no list of memberships coming up for renewal.
>>>>
>>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
>>>> twitter.com/shivaindia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 1:50 AM Nashilongo Gervasius <
>>>> engervasius at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear All
>>>>>
>>>>> Biggest challenge for now ( while still getting the feel of the new
>>>>> system)
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking for the notice/messaging forum  for the members for
>>>>> discussions and interaction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Otherwise wholeheartedly agreeing with concern of previous colleagues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nashilongo
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Chapter-delegates <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>
>>>>> on behalf of Dewole Ajao <dewole at isoc.ng>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:37 PM
>>>>> *To:* Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond; Chapter Delegates; amshelp at isoc.org
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Problems with new membership system
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Olivier and All,
>>>>>
>>>>> On our own side, apart from the disappeared members (that we assume
>>>>> did not opt-in), I've observed the following from the AMS side:
>>>>>
>>>>> You can no longer send email to (applicant) members with pending
>>>>> applications. This was a useful feature as we used to email them to say
>>>>> welcome and tell them a little more about the Chapter and how they could
>>>>> participate (even before accepting their applications). Sadly, the new
>>>>> system won't let you work around it by approving first and trying to mail
>>>>> the most recently approved (because the only ordering options are first
>>>>> name and last name). On both the member listing and email communications
>>>>> pages, one should be able to filter by status, date joined, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also see that there are several subscription status options -
>>>>> including
>>>>> "Active"
>>>>> "Terminated"
>>>>> "Terminated, Active" <- dunno what this magical status is...
>>>>>
>>>>> Painful enough that you cannot opt to view more than 100 members at a
>>>>> time, one does not get any meaningful pagination - If you are giving me 20
>>>>> pages of 100 results, I should at least have the option of going to page N
>>>>> rather than click next, next, next several times for a slow loading page.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Userbility problems aside, I think we should get an explanation about
>>>>> what has happened to member data, what we have left, etc so we can stop
>>>>> speculating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dewole.
>>>>> Nigeria Chapter President
>>>>> On 2/12/2019 6:09 PM, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be interested in your comments, as I have realised (from the
>>>>> feedback received on today's Chapter Advisory Council Steering Committee)
>>>>> that the UK Chapter is not the only Chapter with Membership software
>>>>> problems. Throughout the week, I have been grappling with various problems
>>>>> brought forward by the new Internet Society membership system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Leaving small problems to the side, there are two main problems that
>>>>> the Internet Society UK England Chapter is facing:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The inability to download a list of all our members in Excel
>>>>> format. When we started using the ISOC AMS system, we transferred all of
>>>>> our member's details to the AMS. We even registered with the Data
>>>>> Protection Registrar, in case the details were going to be leaving the UK.
>>>>> Whilst the Internet Society runs the AMS system, we believe that we are the
>>>>> data controller. Now we cannot retrieve the data of our own members and the
>>>>> question comes as to "who owns members"? I remember this debate poisoned
>>>>> discussions in early 2000 when the Internet Society was about to collapse
>>>>> for lack of funds and at the end of the day, the matter was dug into the
>>>>> ground and full access to the membership records given to the Chapters
>>>>> about their own members. Now the new system makes things a lot harder for
>>>>> the Chapter to view and download records of its own members. This simply
>>>>> cannot be the case.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Emailing members using the system: here there are two main
>>>>> problems: first, it is now impossible to email a subset of our members,
>>>>> it's either all of them, or 1 of them, but there is no ability to select a
>>>>> subset of members, for example living in town X, and email them.
>>>>> Functionality loss - which I had already pointed out during the
>>>>> demonstration calls a few months ago, but it appears that someone has
>>>>> deliberately decided to ignore this important feature. That's a technical
>>>>> thing that should be fixed easily.
>>>>>
>>>>> The second problem, possibly more of a problem because I do not think
>>>>> that it is technical, but is a "feature" that was added, is that we now
>>>>> appear not to be able to email all of our members. With the decision of
>>>>> ISOC to go through the toughest regimes of GDPR acceptance by asking for
>>>>> explicit acceptance of GDPR terms, we went from 3400 to 1490 members.
>>>>> Whilst this is a pill that's difficult to swallow, I understand the purpose
>>>>> and conservative direction that ISOC took for this - the culture of "safety
>>>>> first" prevailing these days. That said, we now have another challenge, in
>>>>> that out of these 1490 members, we appear to only be able to email 1098 of
>>>>> them - because it appears that 400 of our "members" have "decided not to
>>>>> receive emails".
>>>>> First, I think that the email opt out button is very badly marked, as
>>>>> it cuts you off all communication and signs you off all of the mailing
>>>>> lists that you might have subscribed to. In my test, I have managed to sign
>>>>> myself off email mailing lists without being able to find a way to put
>>>>> myself back on them - for example the Internet Policy..... But worse still,
>>>>> I have found that my own colleagues in the leadership team have opted out
>>>>> of emails - perhaps unwittingly.
>>>>>
>>>>> What good is a Chapter member that opts out of emails?
>>>>>
>>>>> How in the world will I get in touch with members that have opted out
>>>>> of emails? Are these people completely cut-off from the Internet Society?
>>>>> Are they receiving *any* communication at all from the Internet Society, or
>>>>> is it only the Chapter that is blocked from being able to email them? Do
>>>>> they know they have opted out?
>>>>> To me, these 400 people that the Chapter cannot email are as good as
>>>>> dead wood - why not remove them from Internet Society membership as well?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be interested in your comments if you are faced with similar
>>>>> problems.
>>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
>>>>> (personal views)
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>> https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login
>>>
>>>
>
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