[Chapter-delegates] Call with Chapters in advance of the ITU Plenipotentiary 2018 (18 Oct, 10:00 and 20:00 UTC)

Mon Nov 5 12:42:25 PST 2018

Dave,

the concerns of Internet users in developing countries are not better
served by their governments' participation in the ITU. Many of the
resolutions under discussion cement the power of repressive and
user-unfriendly governments, both in-country and internationally. A big,
solid block of countries that negotiates endlessly - literally till the
light of the next morning - has a model of deep collusion between telco and
government, be it that the telco is government-owned, or owned by a prince
who is a cousin of the country's ruler, or that the government actively
supports a mostly monopolistic telco. Others in the list of unfriendlies
are countries with strong citizen surveillance, at least one of them with a
system such that you may lose your right to board a train if your
social-networking behavior is considered improper; countries that jail or
kill or maim journalists, bloggers, and activists. *They* don't want
anybody's interference in their internal issues any more than the country
you mention; and they want the same freedom to meddle in others'. That's
what the ITU does for them. The way the votes are garnered is not
insignificant either; one of these countries makes huge investments in
infrastructure in a continent, then has 70% of that continent's votes; any
surprise there? (of course the candidate may come from a developing
country; it may further the telecommunications agenda but NOT the Internet
agenda.)

The comparison with ICANN is completely off-base as ICANN is only concerned
with a very limited mission, and allows for direct input from the Internet
technical and user communities. And we have learned not to buy the
"multistakeholder" discourse from the ITU which is based on having the Red
Cross, the International Astronomical Union, and ISOC seated in the back
row with no electricity.

Funny that you would choose to quote Dick Beaird. Mention of the US State
Department from the time he worked there still brings chills to many who
have fought for freedom in developing countries. The tussle between State
and Commerce in the Internet years is a matter for study all by itself.

Since the ITU does not provide insights into the devlopments during the
conference, we are better served by following the Twitter feed of Samantha
G. Dickinson, https//twitter.com/sgdickinson - read just a few entries to
see madness and anomy ooze out.

Alejandro Pisanty

On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 10:18 AM Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com> wrote:

> Nadira
>
> I've had the opposite experience at ITU, often engaging is useful
> discussions up to the level of Secretary-General. I suspect that's because
> I stick to the areas where I have expertise that's useful to them. My work
> gives me depth in topics like the right wireless technology for rural areas
> and the cost obstacles for expanding broadband.
>
> For example, at the WCIT, I instigated what became a meeting between the
> Secretary-General and key civil society delegates.
> --------------
> What doesn't work is presenting yet another opinion on topics the listener
> have heard before. The question of whether the ITU should be involved with
> things like OTT has been the centre of discussion since well before 2012.
> Are you bringing ideas they haven't heard before? The comments by people on
> this thread, including the well-informed Alejandro, have been often
> discussed before. Something like two-thirds of the delegates believe that
> the ITU is the better place to have these discussions because it is far
> more representative than, for example, ICANN. (Check the board members in
> detail.)
>
> There are clearly problems of importance here. Google is trying to avoid
> US$Billions in ordinary taxes in India. The most important International
> issue affecting the cost of access is cartel-like pricing on backhaul &
> transit. Facebook until recently hired almost no one in Africa despite
> hundreds of millions of subscribers. If you try to estimate the flow of
> funds from the developing world to a few Internet giants, you'll discover a
> large figure that is enough to affect any local efforts to grow the net.
>
> The one that strikes people in the gut is the incredibly effective
> surveillance by the NSA as revealed by Snowden. People like Alejandro and
> Vint may have deep philosophical reasons to keep governments away from the
> Internet I can respect. But everyone in the process knows that the U.S.
> government's primary goal in restricting ITU is to protect the freedom of
> the NSA to do what the NSA does. That's the elephant in the room that
> cannot be ignored.
>
> In fact, *the traditional role of the ITU is as the U.N. agency that
> relates to the Internet. *That was strongly supported in earlier days by
> the United States. The source of my information is Dick Beaird who was Senior
> Deputy United States Coordinator International Communications and
> Information Policy.
>
> The strong majority of Internet users are in Asia and now Africa and Latin
> America. Where else can their concerns rise to the top of the agenda?
>
>
> Editor, http://Fastnet.news http://wirelessone.news gfastnews.com
> Reply "sub" for a free subscription to Fast Net News and Wireless One. (2
> or 3/month)
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 9:18 AM Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard,
>>
>> thanks for conveying the ITU view. We should now continue to work on the
>> ISOC view.
>>
>> Borka, Nadira, some of our chapters have taken part in consultations
>> convened by governments in the preparatory stages and otherwise made
>> expressions to them in the sense that the scope of the ITU with respect to
>> the Internet should be kept restrained as much as possible. We have a
>> slight chance of making known now that the "Internet resolutions" are not
>> complying with that view, both in direct correspondence and in open ways,
>> through social media. At least in the Plenipot eight years ago, some
>> resolutions were becoming the laughing stock of the Internet (such as
>> refusing to mention ICANN, the IETF, the RIRs and ISOC by name, not even in
>> footnotes.) Public, social-media pressure was effective then. The national
>> delegates and the ITU authorities may have become more impervious to this
>> kind of pressure but we will not know if no one tries.
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:24 AM Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Alejandro,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ITU-T Study Group 3 has been studying OTT since 2013, see:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/2013-2016/03/Pages/q9.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/2013-2016/03/Pages/ott.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A summary of the status of the work as of October 2017 is at:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/Workshops-and-Seminars/bsg/201710/Documents/Park.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The work is continuing, with the Terms of Reference at:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/studygroups/2017-2020/03/Pages/q9.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>> Given the sensitivity of the topic, it might be difficult to find
>>> consensus in ITU-T Study Group 3 on Recommendations regarding OTT.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding “resolutions in the ITU Plenipotentiary that are out of scope
>>> for the organization”, ITU - like all other intergovernmental organizations
>>> and most organizations in general - defines its own scope. So, by
>>> definition, a PP Resolution cannot be out of scope, since it defines the
>>> scope.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that what you mean is “resolutions in the ITU Plenipotentiary
>>> that, in our view, should be out of scope for the organization”. If indeed
>>> that is ISOC’s view.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Alejandro Pisanty [mailto:apisanty at gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 4, 2018 04:41
>>> *To:* Richard Hill
>>> *Cc:* Elizabeth Oluoch; ISOC Chapter Delegates
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Call with Chapters in advance of the
>>> ITU Plenipotentiary 2018 (18 Oct, 10:00 and 20:00 UTC)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> it's happening, as reported in social media. Drafting by a huge
>>> committee, resolutions in the ITU Plenipotentiary that are out of scope for
>>> the organization, while all "sector members" (i.e. companies and operators)
>>> and organizations like ISOC have 1.5 rows of seats at the back of the room,
>>> without power outlets. See this figure:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can we in ISOC Chapters promptly draft a petition to each of our
>>> governments, easy to translate into many languages, to demand that they
>>> vote to fullly retire this resolution? We certainly can do it without
>>> becoming subservient to the OTTs or any other private, for-profit
>>> interests, going instead against "mission creep" (an unjustifiable growth
>>> in scope of the ITU) and its negative effects on the Internet. What do
>>> other Chapter delegates think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
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