[Chapter-delegates] Comments and feedback on revised charter agreement

Wed Sep 6 09:54:49 PDT 2017

I think John said it so well. I agree with him.
On Sep 6, 2017 6:51 PM, "Carlos Vera" <cveraq at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Sohaib: we are still on time to build a more bottom up process:
>
> May I suggest  to work on PRINCIPLES based on comments here. When we agree
> on PRINCIPLES then the wording would be easy and practical to develop.
>
> Best
>
> Carlos Vera
> Isoc Ecuador
>
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 10:55 AM, Sohaib Saleem <ch.sohaib at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Carlos,
>
> with the best of respects......who would like to reinvent the complete
> wheel, it is nothing but more of a time wasting exercise, I would say.
> Not all the clauses are objectionable to many of us and rest can always be
> debated. Trust me, I've been following the whole channel and it would be a
> mammoth job for someone to carefully incorporate all the suggestions and
> provide us with a very improved form of the document to further debate
> upon.
>
> And I humbly would also like to disagree to your approach by calling it
> not a bottom up approach!
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> *Sohaib Saleem*
> V. Lecturer KICSIT <http://www.kicsit.edu.pk>
> President ISOC PK IBD <http://www.isocibd.org.pk>
> Vice President OSFP <http://www.osfp.org.pk>
> Member Program Committee pkSIG <http://2017.pksig.pk>
> + 92 300 9195902 <+92%20300%209195902>
> http://pk.linkedin.com/in/sohaibsaleem
> https://www.facebook.com/sohaib.saleem
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Carlos Vera <cveraq at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Please stay tuned for the next version, I’m confident that together we
>> can find a consensus that is acceptable to all."
>>
>> Agree with Brandt. This is not a bottom up process at all.
>>
>> The right instance for the agreement for being write from zero is
>> necessary is the Chapters Advisory Council and The chair of the bottom
>> up working group must take this challenge for the workgroup and for
>> the Chapters Advisory Council itself so we can participate from the very
>> beginning under the right methodology including building the principles of
>> the agreement: not intervention, self regulation of chapters, real
>> participation as a decision making instance, and much more.
>>
>> With those principles in mind will be time to write an agreement.
>>
>> Carlos Vera
>> Isoc Ecuador
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 7:11 AM, Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Brandt,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your message.
>>
>> Indeed there is still a lot of discussion going on, which is obviously
>> encouraged and welcomed.
>>
>> Having said that at some point we need to recap the comments made and
>> understand how they can best be addressed.
>>
>> Which is why we had a one month period of comment.
>>
>>
>>
>> It may indeed well be that while going through all the comments and
>> feedbacks there are areas that still need further discussion or that some
>> of the clauses need to be reviewed, revised, clarified or simply removed.
>>
>>
>>
>> As was discussed early on the list, the agreement has been put together
>> with initial feedback from Chapters and has been reviewed by the Chapters
>> Advisory Council before posting on the list.
>>
>> There is surely no intention of dictating… the final version, or updated
>> version if you prefer (you are right, the choice of word could have been
>> better ☺), will be presented to the Chapters AC Steering Committee for
>> revision and we will work with them to identify next steps.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please stay tuned for the next version, I’m confident that together we
>> can find a consensus that is acceptable to all.
>>
>>
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Brandt Dainow <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"brandt.dainow at gmail.com" <brandt.dainow at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, 6 September 2017 at 11:54
>> *To: *Joyce Dogniez <dogniez at isoc.org>, "chapter-delegates at elists.isoc
>> .org" <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> *Subject: *RE: [Chapter-delegates] Comments and feedback on revised
>> charter agreement
>>
>>
>>
>> With the greatest respect, I do not think these discussions have reached
>> a state where conclusions can be drawn, and I personally resent being told
>> that this discussion is over.  Perhaps I am mistaken, but my understanding
>> from your email is that you will now create the final version of the
>> chapter agreement.  If that is the case, then I also resent being told that
>> you and (unknown) other people in central will decide the final version of
>> the new chapter agreement.  These discussions have shown that the days have
>> passed where national chapters will accept central office dictating to them
>> in such a fashion.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want to attempt to summarise positions, and propose a new
>> agreement for consideration by chapters, that is acceptable to me.
>> However, I really don’t think you can legitimately do anything more than
>> that.
>>
>>
>>
>> I propose that no new chapter agreement be finalised without the
>> agreement of two-thirds of the national chapters, and that each national
>> chapter determine how it will vote through formal agreement of its
>> members.  We should bear in mind national members will be bound by the
>> agreement, especially if they ever serve on their national committee.  It
>> is contrary to democratic principles and the principles of justice that
>> someone be bound by changes in rules they haven’t agreed to.  I am aware we
>> currently lack a formal method for chapters to vote on such matters.  So I
>> suggest we develop something as soon as possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suggest that this chapter delegates forum continue to discuss this
>> issue as we feel appropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Brandt Dainow
>>
>> brandt.dainow at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brandt_Dainow
>>
>> http://www.imediaconnection.com/profiles/brandt.dainow
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chapter-delegates [mailto:chapter-delegates-boun
>> ces at elists.isoc.org <chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Joyce Dogniez
>> *Sent:* 06 September 2017 10:15
>> *To:* chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>> *Subject:* [Chapter-delegates] Comments and feedback on revised charter
>> agreement
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Chapter leaders,
>>
>>
>>
>> I want to thank you for your constructive feedback and comments on the
>> revised charter agreement.
>>
>>
>>
>> As the deadline for comments was end of August, we will now start to
>> compile the comments and see how to best address them in the final
>> version.  This will be done by the end of the month.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have also received some comments from Chapters on specific local
>> situations, I will get back to all of you as soon as possible on those.
>>
>> I know some of you are still waiting for some legal feedback locally,
>> please contact me off list to let me know of any specific issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again thanks a lot for your input.
>>
>>
>>
>> Warm regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>>
>>
>> —
>>
>> Joyce Dogniez, CMM
>>
>> Senior Director Global Engagement
>>
>> Internet Society
>>
>>
>>
>> dogniez at isoc.org
>>
>> Mob/Whatsapp: +352 621 266 189 <+352%20621%20266%20189>
>>
>> Skype: joycedogniez
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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