[Chapter-delegates] New ATLARGE Structure Internet Society China

Eric Burger eburger at standardstrack.com
Thu Feb 25 03:21:39 PST 2016 

Sorry Dave - I think you have it backwards.

What you are describing is ISOC’s success. We have so much influence that the US Government, like many governments around the globe, takes on ISOC’s positions, not the other way around. Look at the USG’s initial positions on Internet governance compared to where they are today and you not only see the gradual adoption of ISOC’s positions, in many cases you can even find ISOC text in the new positions.

A lot of that has to do with individual chapters working with their local governments, just as ISOC-DC, ISOC-NY, ISOC-SF, etc. do with the USG, to educate them on what the Internet is about.



> On Feb 25, 2016, at 4:33 AM, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com> wrote:
> 
> We have to be very careful here. ISOC itself is very, very close to the U.S. government, especially at the ITU. For example, the ISOC run IGF USA in 2014 had 5 of 6 keynote speakers from the U.S. Government. I hope that changes this year.
> 
> In the last five years, I can think of only one significant issue (encryption) where ISOC took a strong position different than the U.S. Gov. (That isn't because the government orders ISOC or pays off the leaders. How Beltway Blindness and the DC Consensus develops is a much more subtle question.)
> 
> I can think of a dozen ITU/governance issues ISOC and the U.S. held similar positions. Some make sense, others I disagree with. I think we should be addressing taxation of multinationals, cartel pricing on transit/backhaul, level of royalties, and of course net neutrality.
> 
> If others can think of where ISOC strongly differed from U.S. gov, I'd welcome examples. Please - I'd love to be proven wrong here.
> 
> Most of us think the U.S. government isn't as authoritarian as the Chinese one, myself included. So we don't think of being so close to the U.S. government (and corporations) as an issue.
> 
> But I think we should deal with that before we criticize others. First is to put our own house in order.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 2:11 AM, <borka at e5.ijs.si <mailto:borka at e5.ijs.si>> wrote:
> +1
> 
> Thank you Klaus, I already expressed the same opinion.
> A modus vivandi should be found with Vhinese Internet users
> without violating the main mission and rules  of Internet Society.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Borka
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016, Klaus Birkenbihl wrote:
> 
> Sorry Nadira - I'm afraid you got me wrong. What I'm saying is we should not ignore them and work with them because they are important. But as long as one of their kernel tasks is to supervise censorship and blocking - i.e. crippling the net- they should NOT be part of ISOC. This would jeopardize our credibility in fighting for an open and equally accessible Internet.
> 
> Best, Klaus
> 
> Nadira Alaraj schrieb am 24.02.2016 um 12:58:
> Oh Klaus, you took the words from me,
> because I was going to write,
> for the Internet society it would be much cheaper and more inclusive if Internet Society of China to be an Internet Society chapter. Particularity now ISC is in the process of being in the At-large structure.
> Historically talking and most of the chapters created in the developing countries did emerge either through government or private sector affiliated bodies.
> The Internet Society could distance itself from the political scene of its host country and open up globally.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Nadira Alaraj
> Vice chairperson
> Palestine Chapter
> 
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Klaus Birkenbihl <Klaus.Birkenbihl at isoc.de <mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl at isoc.de> <mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl at isoc.de <mailto:Klaus.Birkenbihl at isoc.de>>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     JOHN MORE schrieb am 23.02.2016 um 15:00:
>    > +1. And this is not intended to attack Internet Society China, which to my knowledge has not attempted to mislead or misuse its name. It is about protecting not only ISOC, but all the Chapters and individuals who share the Internet Society's vision and name.
> 
>     Well (I stated this before in a mail that presumably got lost): I remember ISOC.DE <http://isoc.de/> <http://ISOC.DE <http://isoc.de/>> and a some other chapters met 2003 with a delegation from Internet Society China in 2003. They were on a lobbying tour seeking support to become recognized as an ISOC chapter. So there is (at least was) an interest to be seen as an ISOC chapter.
> 
>     Things I learned during the few month I spent in China working for W3C:
> 
>     1 ISC runs CNNIC.
>     2 ISC is established as an Internet companies association.
>     3 ISC is a government watchdog supervising service providers and Internet companies wrt to conformance to blocking/censorship and other regulations (“self-disciplinary regulations”).
>     4 ISC was very successful in growing and accelerating Internet throughout China.
> 
>     Though ISC is beneficial for Internet in China in many ways - item 3 IMHO disqualifies them from becoming in whatever way affiliated with ISOC.
> 
>     This said: ISC is one of the most important players in the Internet, supervising provision of Internet access for nearly 10% of the global population. We have to talk with them and look for opportunities to cooperate.
> 
>     As far as trademark is concerned: the China Trademark Office lists 中国互联网协会 which translates to Internet Society of China (in 3 different classes, whatever that means). I doubt it would generate any benefit to raise a trademark issue in this case.
> 
>     Best, Klaus
> 
>     --
>     Klaus Birkenbihl
>     Treasurer and Board member
>     Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE <http://isoc.de/> <http://ISOC.DE <http://isoc.de/>>)
>     c/o ict-Media GmbH
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> Klaus Birkenbihl
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