[Chapter-delegates] Internet Society Appointments to theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination Group

Fri Jul 4 09:10:34 PDT 2014

This was rejected by most, years ago, because it is de facto a poll tax and
it is a double vote.

Alejandro Pisanty
On Jul 4, 2014 4:14 PM, "Vint Cerf" <vint at google.com> wrote:

> separating businesses from individuals might still be a problem. Hard to
> say whether voting would overcome some preferences for anonymity in the
> database.
>
> v
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>
>>  If registrants could vote, then they would have an additional incentive
>> to keep the WHOIS database up to date.  Same as corporate shareholders: if
>> they want to vote, they make sure that the company secretary has their
>> current address.
>>
>> Best,
>> Richard
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> *From:* Vint Cerf [mailto:vint at google.com]
>> *Sent:* vendredi, 4. juillet 2014 16:48
>> *To:* rhill at hill-a.ch
>> *Cc:* Evan Leibovitch; Chapter Delegates
>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society Appointments to
>> theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination Group
>>
>> The WHOIS database would need to be a lot more solid, I guess, to make
>> that work. There is also the question of users who are not domain name
>> holders which draws me back to ALAC.  I don't have a good answer here
>> except to say that the "election" in the early years of ICANN proved
>> problematic in many respects.
>>
>> v
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>  Dear Vint,
>>>
>>> I agree that it might not be feasible to organize a global election of
>>> the ICANN Board ty the citizens of the world, or by the users of the
>>> Internet.
>>>
>>> That's why I suggest instead that the ICANN Board be elected by
>>> registrants (holders) of domain names.  That is quite feasible using
>>> existing technologies and databases. I realize that some registrants use
>>> anonimity services, but it would be up to them to declare themselves as
>>> registrants if they wish to participate in the election, if not they would
>>> simply be absentees.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> *From:* Vint Cerf [mailto:vint at google.com]
>>> *Sent:* vendredi, 4. juillet 2014 13:12
>>> *To:* rhill at hill-a.ch
>>> *Cc:* Evan Leibovitch; Chapter Delegates
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society Appointments to
>>> theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination Group
>>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> the idea that there should be a global election for board members of
>>> ICANN by citizens of the world and users of the Internet was then and I
>>> think still is unworkable. Qualifying the electorate and running a
>>> verifiable election (ie, free of fraud) via the Internet is still out of
>>> the question. In places like Estonia where strong authentication is
>>> available it appears possible to achieve such an objective but this isn't
>>> feasible today on a global scale. I think the At-Large mechanism is about
>>> the best one can do along these lines for now.
>>>
>>> vint
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Dear Evan,
>>>>
>>>> I fully agree with you that it would be better if ICANN were ultimately
>>>> accountable to all the world's Internet users (or maybe even to all the
>>>> world's people, since I believe we all want all people to use the Internet).
>>>>
>>>> As you say below, the initial structure of ICANN did allow for
>>>> significant influence by users, but this was later modified to reduce that
>>>> influence.
>>>> If we can come up with a practical scheme allowing all users to
>>>> excercise control over ICANN's accountability, I would be all for it.
>>>>
>>>> If not, then at least let's implement accountability by registrants,
>>>> which is not perfect (for the reasons you say) but surely better than the
>>>> current setup which has the drawbacks that you outline below.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>> *From:* evanleibovitch at gmail.com [mailto:evanleibovitch at gmail.com]*On
>>>> Behalf Of *Evan Leibovitch
>>>> *Sent:* jeudi, 3. juillet 2014 22:39
>>>> *To:* Richard Hill
>>>> *Cc:* Eric Burger; Chapter Delegates
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Internet Society Appointments to
>>>> theNTIA/IANA Stewardship Transition Coordination Group
>>>>
>>>>   On 3 July 2014 12:09, Richard Hill <rhill at hill-a.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  In democracies, the ultimate authority (parliament) is elected by
>>>>> all those affected, it is not chosen by a NomCom.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's because the ICANN "Nominating Committee" is misnamed.
>>>>
>>>> What ICANN has is a selection committee. A true *NOMINATING* Committee
>>>> would create a ballot of eligible candidates from which an electorate would
>>>> choose representatives. It's that last little step -- having an electorate
>>>> -- that ICANN has consciously dispensed with. It's why ICANN has worked so
>>>> hard to evade the traditional structure of nonprofits (such as our
>>>> Chapter's) whose Boards are accountable to a membership.
>>>>
>>>> Once upon a time there were direct elections to ICANN, which were
>>>> gamed. The response to gaming was to eliminate elections, rather than
>>>> address the gaming issue. Perhaps that over-reaction needs to be revisited,
>>>> especially now that e-voting tech has advanced so much lately.
>>>>
>>>> My suggestion is that the ultimate oversigh for ICANN's economic
>>>>> regulatory function should be the end-users, that is the registrants of
>>>>> domain names (people/organizations that hold domain name registrations).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End users != registrants.
>>>>
>>>> This error occurs frequently within ICANN, and is a constant source of
>>>> required vigilance.
>>>>
>>>> End users are the people sitting at screens or on their mobiles, who
>>>> access the Internet without any need for a domain name or intention to
>>>> possess one. I reject the assertion by many in the domain industry that
>>>> everyone needs to own a domain, that each person on earth is just a
>>>> potential registrant who hasn't yet been adequately marketed to.
>>>>
>>>> Among the current family of registrants -- owning a substantial chunk
>>>> of the total domain name pool -- are name speculators and squatters.
>>>> ICANN's tolerance of their presence creates artificial scarcity, raises the
>>>> cost of Internet entry to startup businesses, and causes legitimate site
>>>> and brand owners to needlessly register defensive names. (They also
>>>> dramatically inflate the total number of extant domains, which is now
>>>> arguably a source of ICANN's own financial dependence. But that's a
>>>> different thread.)
>>>>
>>>> In this family are also those who create domain names with intent to
>>>> defraud. This is why the Red Cross request for domain name protection came
>>>> in for special attention at the ICANN Board recently (supported by the GAC
>>>> and ALAC), why the lack of enforced WHOIS accuracy has become a source of
>>>> controversy, and why the ALAC continues to challenge the utility of gTLD
>>>> "Public Interest Committments" over the protests of the domain industry.
>>>>
>>>> So, Richard, I must take issue with your definition. While the
>>>> interests of registrants often have much in common with those of end users,
>>>> they are most certainly not 100% in sync and occasionally in direct
>>>> opposition.
>>>>
>>>> Registrants have their own constituencies within the "Non-Contracted
>>>> House" half of ICANN's GNSO, from which they protect their interests.
>>>> That's not At-Large, which, like ISOC, exists to assert the perspective of
>>>> end-users -- the billions outside ICANN's direct revenue stream who are
>>>> nonetheless impacted by its actions.
>>>>
>>>> - Evan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>>>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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