[Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter

[Talha Habib]

+1 Victor,

Thank you
--
Warm Regards,
Talha Habib

* Sent from Galaxy Note
On 27 Sep 2013 18:06, "Victor Ndonnang" <ndonnang at nvconsulting.biz> wrote:

> +1 Ted,****
>
> ** **
>
> I’m following with great attention this discussion initiated by the
> Cambodian Chapter intention to leave the Internet society Great family
> which lead to the old debate about ISOC’s direct financial support to
> Chapters. Before I continue, I would like to clearly express my opposition
> to that. For me, It is important and better for ISOC HQ to empower Chapters
> rather than giving them money. Chapters are not “national bureau” of the
> Internet Society. ISOC Chapters and ISOC Global are partners who share the
> same vision and the mission. The direct financial support to Chapters for
> their administrative and running costs will make the Chapters useless,
> dependent and non-sustainable. If we put in place the systematic direct
> financial support from ISOC HQ to Chapters, we will see many useless
> Chapters flourish around the world only to benefit to that direct financial
> support. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The belonging to the ISOC great family comes with advantages but also
> responsibilities. The Internet Society is already supporting and empowering
> Chapters in many ways:****
>
> **-       **The community Grants programme gives priority to Chapters
> projects****
>
> **-       **The Event funding programme which helps to keep the Chapter
> active each year****
>
> **-       **The Web presence support****
>
> **-       **The travel support ****
>
> **-       **Capacities Building and Leadership Program****
>
> **-       **International Handbook for Chapters****
>
> **-       **Management Tools ****
>
> **-       **Etc . You can read more on :
> http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/chapters/lead ****
>
> All those programs are ways of “indirect” financial support of ISOC to
> Chapters. Many will say it is not enough, but for me It is enough! Chapters
> should search for others sources of funding locally and International using
> the prestige and add-value of been part of ISOC. Chapters should think to
> create recurrent activities that can generate revenues and help them be
> independent financially and of course sustainable. I know Chapters are
> non-profit organization or group, but been non-profit do not means that we
> cannot generate revenues or sell our expertise (gained from ISOC and others
> Chapters) and services locally. For example, when we organize trainings, we
> can ask participants for small participation fees and this can help us
> overcome our administrative and running costs. But we can only do this in a
> sustainable way when we are registered as a legal entity in our respective
> country.****
>
> ** **
>
> Let come back to issue which brings this discussion live: Making ISOC
> Cambodia Chapter a legal entity in Cambodia. ****
>
> I know how It is difficult to establish a non-profit organization in many
> countries, especially in developing countries. When I started the
> “re-formation” process of ISOC Cameroon Chapter, I made that goal my N°1
> priority and which the help (time and money) of others founding members, we
> achieved it. We had the choice at that time to legalize the Cameroon
> Chapter as a NGO or Association. The process to become an NGO was too
> complicated, so we choice to be registered as an Association (a sort of
> small NGO). This is very important because Chapters can only be respected
> locally and interact freely with government, private sector and other
> groups when they are registered as a legal entity by the local
> administrative authorities. ****
>
> Based on that experience, I suggest to our Cambodia Chapter colleagues to
> explore all alternatives of legal recognition in their country. Be
> registered as a NGO is not the only way to become a legal non-profit
> organization or entity, I hope this is true in Cambodia too. ****
>
> ** **
>
> When the Chapter is registered as a legal entity (NGO, Association…) in
> its respective country, it can easily search or apply to local funding
> opportunities (government grants, big national corporates grants…). The
> formation an ISOC Chapter is a process and Chapter founding members are
> aware during the process that ISOC HQ will not be the only source of
> funding for the Chapter (that’s why there is a mention about “Chapter
> supporters” in the application form and means of funding the draft
> By-Laws). Let’s search for others sources of funding and thanks the ISOC HQ
> for all It is already offering us rather than fighting for something which
> will make us useless. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Sorry for the long email. ****
>
> Best regards,****
>
> Victor Ndonnang****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *De :* chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org [mailto:
> chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] *De la part de* Ted Mooney
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 26 septembre 2013 17:10
> *À :* ISOC Chapter Delegates
> *Objet :* Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the
> Cambodian Chapter****
>
> ** **
>
> From my perspective these are all very good thoughts that have not only
> made me reconsider the way I speak to the community at large, but also how
> to move forward with a more productive dialog regarding administrative
> support for Chapters.  There are quite rightfully, many different ideas how
> to proceed and as we all know, no single framework will be effective in all
> cases.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> The first full meeting of the Chapter Administrative Support Working Group
> (there have been conversations and emails pulling the group together and
> agreeing an agenda) will take place next week and there will be a report
> out to the chapter delegates regarding the outcome and next steps.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Grigori asked that someone address why direct financial support was not
> immediately forthcoming.  The reason is that at this point, there isn't a
> sufficient amount of money to assure fairness or even success, no fully
> developed plan to assure buy-in or understand the impact, no measurement or
> funds-accounting mechanisms.  However, I fully expect progress on all these
> fronts by the end of the year and beyond.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Let me also point out that a number of chapters have resolved these issues
> on their own from which many lessons can be learned.  The autonomy of ISOC
> Chapters is a critical part of your overall effectiveness and ability to
> drive our mission locally.  It comes with a high degree of
> self-determination and a degree of self-sufficiency which many of you have
> not only embraced, but insisted upon.  I ask you to please put aside past
> resentments regarding the perception of  ISOC as a "rich" organization when
> support of our global mission on so many fronts requires investment many
> times our capability.  Senior leadership of the Internet Society supports
> constant vigilance and adjustment of our funding priorities to assure our
> communities are armed as best they can be to support the ISOC Global
> mission.  These processes are neither quick nor simple.  But your voices
> are heard and are having an impact, however glacial the speed of their
> implementation.  In this light, I call upon the Cambodian Chapter once
> again, to reconsider it's decision to leave the Internet Society and work
> on a plan for the short and long term viability of our mission there.****
>
> ** **
>
> With great regards,****
>
> ** **
>
> Ted****
>
> Ted Mooney****
>
> Senior Director, Membership & Services****
>
> The Internet Society****
>
> 1775 Wiehle Avenue****
>
> Reston, VA 20190 USA****
>
> Office: +1 703-439-2774****
>
> Cell: +1 301-980-6446****
>
> eMail: mooney at isoc.org****
>
> ** **
>
> *From: *Shreedeep Rayamajhi <weaker41 at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, September 26, 2013 11:26 AM
> *To: *Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *ISOC Chapter Delegates <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the
> Cambodian Chapter****
>
> ** **
>
> I meant to say the communication can differ from people and channel so it
> has be standardized and centralized accordingly, the confusion in between
> the can create problems    ****
>
>
> ****
>
> Cheers to Life
> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> 00977-9841374547(Nepal)
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal) ****
>
> 00977-9813900099****
>
> +1(301)485-9395(US)
> <http://www.rayznews.com/>
>
> *DISCLAIMER:* This message is intended only for the recipient. If you are
> not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
> information is strictly prohibited.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Shreedeep: ****
>
> ** **
>
> Can you be so kind in explaining the meaning of the last sentence in your
> message? I can interpret it in many different ways.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> ** **
>
> -ed****
>
> President****
>
> ISOC-Puerto Rico****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Shreedeep Rayamajhi <weaker41 at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Dear all
>
> We all are proud to be part of the Internet society and to some extent it
> is our pride and prestige to say we are located through out the world. As
> said big powers come with bigger Responsibilities just like that we need to
> address the issue of Cambodian chapter by every possible means.It counts
> for every member that stand for change and with such situation ISOC can
> certainly help the chapter. Its not just about the rules and principle but
> on practical ground if there is a possibility from the ISOC headquarters
> then they should help because it makes a difference.
>
> ISOC and its role model of economic independence can be understood and the
> pros and cons of funding a chapter is the part of the ISOC board or whom it
> may be concern but in reality if there is a possibility for the Cambodian
> chapter to help then ISOC should by all means.
>
> I think the communication in between the chapters +chapter leaders+ISOC
> broad needs to be neutralized in every possible way.  ****
>
>
> ****
>
> Cheers to Life
> Shreedeep Rayamajhi
> 00977-9841374547(Nepal)
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal) ****
>
> 00977-9813900099
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_(activist)****
>
> +1(301)485-9395(US)
> *Erreur ! Nom du fichier non spécifié.* <http://www.rayznews.com/>
>
> *DISCLAIMER:* This message is intended only for the recipient. If you are
> not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
> distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this
> information is strictly prohibited.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Eduard Tric <eduard.tric at isoc.ro> wrote:*
> ***
>
> A few years ago , i had the opportunity to participate in a task force
> called "Isoc chapter of the future".
> One of the conclusions was that there has to be a balance between what HQ
> offer to the capters (direct financial support was barley mentioned , among
> other forms of support ) and what chapters should provide to HQ (some form
> of activity , or growth).
> If direct financial support is not an option, the "why" part should be
> explained in detail.
> In that case , indirect support should be enhanced (raise community grants
> budget and leadership training for chapter key persons )
> Regards,
> Ed
>
> ----- Mesaj original -----
> De la: "Grigori Saghyan" <gregor at arminco.com>
> Către: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Trimis: joi, 26 septembrie, 2013 3:07:04
> Subiect: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian
> Chapter****
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Dear All,
> from the formal point  "chapter" is a part of one large structure.  I
> think it is to have clearly defined relations  between "Chapters" (or
> local ISOC structures) and whom? I use "ISOC Global" term, but may be
> "Management" or "HQ or "Board" is better? For each of proposed terms
> there is some uncertainty.
>
> After Cambodian declaration it looks, that there only one real  way to
> draw attention to Chapter problems.
>
> Btw, why it is such strong negative reaction   for direct financial
> support? And as we see, there is an expression " The issue of the lack
> of direct financial transfers is currently not among
> the solutions the Internet Society can offer".
>
>  Here we  see the author:  it is the  "Internet Society".
>  Not the  Board, not the staff, not the management, not ISOC Global,
> but the "Internet Society"
>  Logically,  I can understand,  that as a  Chapter,  our Chapter was
> involved in some kind of discussion on that point, there was a voting
> procedure, and such decision was approved by majority?  But we do not
> participated in such procedure.
> On the the other hand, if the Chapter is real "chapter" - a part of a
> large structure the "Internet Society"  - it is not necessary to ask
> Chapter's opinion.
>
> Clear definition of terms is one of the strongest requirements
> everywhere, I think it is one of the most important points today for
> ISOC community (also  undefined  term).
>
>
>
> Grigori Saghyan
> ISOC.AM
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26.09.2013 0:19, Elver Loho wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I haven't kept up with this email list, but from what I can gather
> > the Cambodian Chapter wants to disassociate from ISOC due to lack
> > of direct financial support for the basic running and operation of
> > the Chapter.
> >
> > I do not speak for my Chapter here, but personally I
> > wholeheartedly support this gesture. If this happens, then maybe,
> > just maybe, ISOC senior staff will start taking the issue of
> > providing support for Chapters around the world seriously.
> >
> > Right now Chapters seem to exist more as a way for ISOC HQ to show
> > that they have support and members around the world. We're all
> > providing a sort of legitimacy for the people at the HQ. Do we get
> > something back for this? Sort of. I mean, maybe. To some degree.
> > Though here in Estonia very few people have heard of the Internet
> > Society while our own local language brand carries a lot of
> > weight. Your situation may be different.
> >
> > Meanwhile we're battling with basic organizational issues, because
> > we can't even afford to keep up basic maintenance. At times we're
> > even unable to reply to government's requests for comments on
> > pending legislation, because we all have regular jobs or businesses
> > to run. This has to end. If what it takes is for one or more
> > Chapters to secede from the union, then so be it. If the Cambodian
> > Chapter goes through with this, I'm willing to put the question of
> > secession up for debate in our own Chapter.
> >
> > I urge other Chapter leaders to consider the same.
> >
> > Best, Elver .ee
> >
> > elver.loho at gmail.com +372 5661 6933 skype: elver.loho
> >
> >
> > On 25 September 2013 22:56, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Cambodian colleagues
> >>
> >> I'm a board member in New York and respect your decision but urge
> >> you to keep working to resolve this. The board of ISOC is
> >> strongly committed to working with chapters and directed staff to
> >> improve things. If that's broken down here, as it seems, several
> >> board members are surely willing to help. They are dedicated,
> >> committed people who make a point fo responding to ISOC chapter
> >> members. I or a dozen others on this list can connect you if
> >> that makes things easier.
> >>
> >> They are all strong and independent thinkers, most with a no
> >> b______ attitude.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ted
> >>
> >> Thanks for addressing this; leaving it without response would
> >> have been painful. This is a crisis for the goverance model of
> >> ISOC that needs to be resolved at the highest level. As you saw
> >> from this list, a dozen other chapters think this crucial to
> >> solve.
> >>
> >> But "The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is
> >> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can offer"
> >> doesn't seem to the point. Is there anything in the ISOC charter
> >> that makes this impossible? If so, please point to it and people
> >> can bring it to the board.
> >>
> >> "Can" is the word you used. I'm guessing this actually is an
> >> administrative decision made by the senior staff, who can, if
> >> they choose, simply reverse the decision. Staff are constantly
> >> making financial decisions an order of magnitude greater.  If
> >> staff feel they can't do this without board approval, that's easy
> >> to obtain if it's important to ISOC. As many of us know, most of
> >> the board members are very accessible and dedicated to solving
> >> ISOC problems if necessary.
> >>
> >> "Should" ISOC provide the seed funding here, necessary to get the
> >> chapter started on the path to independence is the real question.
> >> I'm sure there's a lot more here than the presumably modest sum
> >> to share some office space. Likely, a shared or cheap office
> >> space that fits the legal requirements can be obtained for less
> >> than the cost of sending one more talking head to IGF Bali.
> >> Nothing wrong with IGF, but a slightly smaller ISOC delegation
> >> isn't a fatal wound.
> >>
> >> I don't know enough to decide whether ISOC should do more here
> >> and I'm sure there are major issues that haven't been discussed.
> >>
> >> So let's draw in Lynn, Walda or whomever else actually has the
> >> power to make things happen and prevent a deep organizational
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> db
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Ted Mooney <mooney at isoc.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To all Chapter Delegates
> >>>
> >>> ISOC Staff and, in particular, Membership and Services,  are
> >>> saddened by the recent decision and communication from the
> >>> Cambodian Chapter regarding their desire to dissociate from the
> >>> Internet Society for administrative and other support concerns.
> >>> I believe, however, there has been an unfortunate
> >>> miscommunication.  The Chapter Development and APAC staff  have
> >>> reached out to the Cambodian Chapter on numerous occasions.  As
> >>> many of you know, our Chapter Development team has worked with
> >>> other chapters to help address issues nearly identical to what
> >>> the Cambodian Chapter is experiencing.  Our offer of
> >>> collaboration remains.
> >>>
> >>> The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is
> >>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can
> >>> offer.  There are, nevertheless many other avenues to address
> >>> the administrative support of the Chapter, which are both local
> >>> and long term.  Indeed Staff are working with Chapter
> >>> volunteers and have convened a new Chapter Administrative
> >>> Support Working Group to address this issue broadly.  We hope
> >>> the Cambodian Chapter will reassess their position and
> >>> re-engage with ISOC staff as soon as possible. Our Chapter
> >>> Development staff will reach out once again to the Cambodian
> >>> Chapter officers.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Ted Ted Mooney Senior Director, Membership & Services The
> >>> Internet Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA 20190 USA
> >>> Office: +1 703-439-2774 Cell: +1 301-980-6446 eMail:
> >>> mooney at isoc.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to
> >>> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
> >>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud
> >> Author with Jennie Bourne  DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video:
> >> Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> >> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> >> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> >> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> > _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> > Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> > list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> >
>
>
> - --
> Grigori Saghyan
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> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org****
>
> --
>
> --****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org****
>
> ** **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -- ****
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
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