[Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter

Grigori Saghyan gregor at arminco.com
Thu Sep 26 14:02:26 PDT 2013


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Ted,
you mention "ISOC Global" term. I think, today it is very important
for all ISOC Cahpters to understand  what it is -  "ISOC Global".
Options: It is the management of US based NGO.
It is a  the Board of Directors of an International organization.
It is a the Board of Directors of US based NGO
It is something new, which was not exists, with new rules.
Other understandable descriptions.

Regards
Grigori Saghyan
ISOC.AM

On 26.09.2013 20:09, Ted Mooney wrote:
> From my perspective these are all very good thoughts that have not
> only made me reconsider the way I speak to the community at large,
> but also how to move forward with a more productive dialog
> regarding administrative support for Chapters.  There are quite
> rightfully, many different ideas how to proceed and as we all know,
> no single framework will be effective in all cases.
> 
> The first full meeting of the Chapter Administrative Support
> Working Group (there have been conversations and emails pulling the
> group together and agreeing an agenda) will take place next week
> and there will be a report out to the chapter delegates regarding
> the outcome and next steps.
> 
> Grigori asked that someone address why direct financial support was
> not immediately forthcoming.  The reason is that at this point,
> there isn't a sufficient amount of money to assure fairness or even
> success, no fully developed plan to assure buy-in or understand the
> impact, no measurement or funds-accounting mechanisms.  However, I
> fully expect progress on all these fronts by the end of the year
> and beyond.
> 
> Let me also point out that a number of chapters have resolved
> these issues on their own from which many lessons can be learned.
> The autonomy of ISOC Chapters is a critical part of your overall 
> effectiveness and ability to drive our mission locally.  It comes
> with a high degree of self-determination and a degree of
> self-sufficiency which many of you have not only embraced, but
> insisted upon.  I ask you to please put aside past resentments
> regarding the perception of  ISOC as a "rich" organization when
> support of our global mission on so many fronts requires investment
> many times our capability.  Senior leadership of the Internet
> Society supports constant vigilance and adjustment of our funding
> priorities to assure our communities are armed as best they can be
> to support the ISOC Global mission.  These processes are neither 
> quick nor simple.  But your voices are heard and are having an
> impact, however glacial the speed of their implementation.  In this
> light, I call upon the Cambodian Chapter once again, to reconsider
> it's decision to leave the Internet Society and work on a plan for
> the short and long term viability of our mission there.
> 
> With great regards,
> 
> Ted Ted Mooney Senior Director, Membership & Services The Internet
> Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA 20190 USA Office: +1
> 703-439-2774 Cell: +1 301-980-6446 eMail: mooney at isoc.org
> 
> From: Shreedeep Rayamajhi <weaker41 at gmail.com
> <mailto:weaker41 at gmail.com>> Date: Thursday, September 26, 2013
> 11:26 AM To: Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com 
> <mailto:eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>> Cc: ISOC Chapter Delegates
> <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org 
> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>> Subject: Re:
> [Chapter-delegates] Recent Correspondence from the Cambodian
> Chapter
> 
> I meant to say the communication can differ from people and channel
> so it has be standardized and centralized accordingly, the
> confusion in between the can create problems
> 
> Cheers to Life Shreedeep Rayamajhi 00977-9841374547(Nepal) 
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal) 00977-9813900099
> 
> +1(301)485-9395(US) <http://www.rayznews.com/>
> 
> *DISCLAIMER:* This message is intended only for the recipient. If
> you are not the intended recipient you are notified that
> disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance
> on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Eduardo Diaz 
> <eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> Shreedeep:
> 
> Can you be so kind in explaining the meaning of the last sentence
> in your message? I can interpret it in many different ways.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -ed President ISOC-Puerto Rico
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Shreedeep Rayamajhi 
> <weaker41 at gmail.com <mailto:weaker41 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear all
> 
> We all are proud to be part of the Internet society and to some 
> extent it is our pride and prestige to say we are located through
> out the world. As said big powers come with bigger Responsibilities
> just like that we need to address the issue of Cambodian chapter by
> every possible means.It counts for every member that stand for
> change and with such situation ISOC can certainly help the chapter.
> Its not just about the rules and principle but on practical ground
> if there is a possibility from the ISOC headquarters then they
> should help because it makes a difference.
> 
> ISOC and its role model of economic independence can be understood
> and the pros and cons of funding a chapter is the part of the ISOC
> board or whom it may be concern but in reality if there is a
> possibility for the Cambodian chapter to help then ISOC should by
> all means.
> 
> I think the communication in between the chapters +chapter 
> leaders+ISOC broad needs to be neutralized in every possible way.
> 
> Cheers to Life Shreedeep Rayamajhi 00977-9841374547(Nepal) 
> 00977-9851049683(Nepal) 00977-9813900099 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shreedeep_Rayamajhi_(activist) 
> +1(301)485-9395 <tel:%2B1%28301%29485-9395>(US) 
> <http://www.rayznews.com/>
> 
> *DISCLAIMER:* This message is intended only for the recipient. If
> you are not the intended recipient you are notified that 
> disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance
> on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Eduard Tric <eduard.tric at isoc.ro
> <mailto:eduard.tric at isoc.ro>> wrote:
> 
> A few years ago , i had the opportunity to participate in a task
> force called "Isoc chapter of the future". One of the conclusions
> was that there has to be a balance between what HQ offer to the
> capters (direct financial support was barley mentioned , among
> other forms of support ) and what chapters should provide to HQ
> (some form of activity , or growth). If direct financial support is
> not an option, the "why" part should be explained in detail. In
> that case , indirect support should be enhanced (raise community
> grants budget and leadership training for chapter key persons ) 
> Regards, Ed
> 
> ----- Mesaj original ----- De la: "Grigori Saghyan"
> <gregor at arminco.com <mailto:gregor at arminco.com>> Către:
> chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org 
> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org> Trimis: joi, 26
> septembrie, 2013 3:07:04 Subiect: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Recent
> Correspondence from the Cambodian Chapter
> 
> Dear All, from the formal point  "chapter" is a part of one large 
> structure.  I think it is to have clearly defined relations
> between "Chapters" (or local ISOC structures) and whom? I use "ISOC
> Global" term, but may be "Management" or "HQ or "Board" is better?
> For each of proposed terms there is some uncertainty.
> 
> After Cambodian declaration it looks, that there only one real  way
> to draw attention to Chapter problems.
> 
> Btw, why it is such strong negative reaction   for direct 
> financial support? And as we see, there is an expression " The
> issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is currently not
> among the solutions the Internet Society can offer".
> 
> Here we  see the author:  it is the  "Internet Society". Not the
> Board, not the staff, not the management, not ISOC Global, but the
> "Internet Society" Logically,  I can understand,  that as a
> Chapter,  our Chapter was involved in some kind of discussion on
> that point, there was a voting procedure, and such decision was
> approved by majority?  But we do not participated in such
> procedure. On the the other hand, if the Chapter is real "chapter"
> - a part of a large structure the "Internet Society"  - it is not 
> necessary to ask Chapter's opinion.
> 
> Clear definition of terms is one of the strongest requirements 
> everywhere, I think it is one of the most important points today
> for ISOC community (also  undefined  term).
> 
> 
> 
> Grigori Saghyan ISOC.AM <http://ISOC.AM>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 26.09.2013 0:19, Elver Loho wrote:
>> Hi all,
> 
>> I haven't kept up with this email list, but from what I can
>> gather the Cambodian Chapter wants to disassociate from ISOC due
>> to lack of direct financial support for the basic running and
>> operation of the Chapter.
> 
>> I do not speak for my Chapter here, but personally I 
>> wholeheartedly support this gesture. If this happens, then
>> maybe, just maybe, ISOC senior staff will start taking the issue
>> of providing support for Chapters around the world seriously.
> 
>> Right now Chapters seem to exist more as a way for ISOC HQ to
>> show that they have support and members around the world. We're
>> all providing a sort of legitimacy for the people at the HQ. Do
>> we get something back for this? Sort of. I mean, maybe. To some
>> degree. Though here in Estonia very few people have heard of the
>> Internet Society while our own local language brand carries a lot
>> of weight. Your situation may be different.
> 
>> Meanwhile we're battling with basic organizational issues,
>> because we can't even afford to keep up basic maintenance. At
>> times we're even unable to reply to government's requests for
>> comments on pending legislation, because we all have regular jobs
>> or businesses to run. This has to end. If what it takes is for
>> one or more Chapters to secede from the union, then so be it. If
>> the Cambodian Chapter goes through with this, I'm willing to put
>> the question of secession up for debate in our own Chapter.
> 
>> I urge other Chapter leaders to consider the same.
> 
>> Best, Elver .ee
> 
>> elver.loho at gmail.com <mailto:elver.loho at gmail.com> +372 5661
> 6933 <tel:%2B372%205661%206933> skype: elver.loho
> 
> 
>> On 25 September 2013 22:56, Dave Burstein <daveb at dslprime.com
>> <mailto:daveb at dslprime.com>> wrote:
>>> Cambodian colleagues
>>> 
>>> I'm a board member in New York and respect your decision but
>>> urge you to keep working to resolve this. The board of ISOC is 
>>> strongly committed to working with chapters and directed staff
>>> to improve things. If that's broken down here, as it seems,
>>> several board members are surely willing to help. They are
>>> dedicated, committed people who make a point fo responding to
>>> ISOC chapter members. I or a dozen others on this list can
>>> connect you if that makes things easier.
>>> 
>>> They are all strong and independent thinkers, most with a no 
>>> b______ attitude.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ted
>>> 
>>> Thanks for addressing this; leaving it without response would 
>>> have been painful. This is a crisis for the goverance model of 
>>> ISOC that needs to be resolved at the highest level. As you
>>> saw from this list, a dozen other chapters think this crucial
>>> to solve.
>>> 
>>> But "The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is 
>>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can
>>> offer" doesn't seem to the point. Is there anything in the ISOC
>>> charter that makes this impossible? If so, please point to it
>>> and people can bring it to the board.
>>> 
>>> "Can" is the word you used. I'm guessing this actually is an 
>>> administrative decision made by the senior staff, who can, if 
>>> they choose, simply reverse the decision. Staff are constantly 
>>> making financial decisions an order of magnitude greater.  If 
>>> staff feel they can't do this without board approval, that's
>>> easy to obtain if it's important to ISOC. As many of us know,
>>> most of the board members are very accessible and dedicated to
>>> solving ISOC problems if necessary.
>>> 
>>> "Should" ISOC provide the seed funding here, necessary to get
>>> the chapter started on the path to independence is the real
>>> question. I'm sure there's a lot more here than the presumably
>>> modest sum to share some office space. Likely, a shared or
>>> cheap office space that fits the legal requirements can be
>>> obtained for less than the cost of sending one more talking
>>> head to IGF Bali. Nothing wrong with IGF, but a slightly
>>> smaller ISOC delegation isn't a fatal wound.
>>> 
>>> I don't know enough to decide whether ISOC should do more here 
>>> and I'm sure there are major issues that haven't been
>>> discussed.
>>> 
>>> So let's draw in Lynn, Walda or whomever else actually has the 
>>> power to make things happen and prevent a deep organizational 
>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> db
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Ted Mooney <mooney at isoc.org
>>> <mailto:mooney at isoc.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> To all Chapter Delegates
>>>> 
>>>> ISOC Staff and, in particular, Membership and Services,  are 
>>>> saddened by the recent decision and communication from the 
>>>> Cambodian Chapter regarding their desire to dissociate from
>>>> the Internet Society for administrative and other support
>>>> concerns. I believe, however, there has been an unfortunate 
>>>> miscommunication.  The Chapter Development and APAC staff
>>>> have reached out to the Cambodian Chapter on numerous
>>>> occasions.  As many of you know, our Chapter Development team
>>>> has worked with other chapters to help address issues nearly
>>>> identical to what the Cambodian Chapter is experiencing.  Our
>>>> offer of collaboration remains.
>>>> 
>>>> The issue of the lack of direct financial transfers is 
>>>> currently not among the solutions the Internet Society can 
>>>> offer.  There are, nevertheless many other avenues to
>>>> address the administrative support of the Chapter, which are
>>>> both local and long term.  Indeed Staff are working with
>>>> Chapter volunteers and have convened a new Chapter
>>>> Administrative Support Working Group to address this issue
>>>> broadly.  We hope the Cambodian Chapter will reassess their
>>>> position and re-engage with ISOC staff as soon as possible.
>>>> Our Chapter Development staff will reach out once again to
>>>> the Cambodian Chapter officers.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Ted Ted Mooney Senior Director, Membership & Services The 
>>>> Internet Society 1775 Wiehle Avenue Reston, VA 20190 USA 
>>>> Office: +1 703-439-2774 <tel:%2B1%20703-439-2774> Cell: +1
> 301-980-6446 <tel:%2B1%20301-980-6446> eMail:
>>>> mooney at isoc.org <mailto:mooney at isoc.org>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ As an
>>>> Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
>>>> the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
>>>> https://portal.isoc.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Editor, Fast Net News, Net Policy News and A Wireless Cloud 
>>> Author with Jennie Bourne  DSL (Wiley, 2002) and Web Video: 
>>> Making It Great, Getting It Noticed (Peachpit, 2008)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet 
>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to
>>> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet
>>> Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet 
>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this 
>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 
> --
> 
> --
> 
> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
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> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society 
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
> 
> 
> 
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- -- 
Grigori Saghyan
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