[Chapter-delegates] Interim Information: Serious considerations to dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter

Tue Oct 22 20:34:21 PDT 2013

There are additional elements.

The present website of ISOC does not even try to present a different image: it is drawn up to
address first of all those in its membership which are citizens of the USA. We had pointed
out the observation that a visit to one's own ISOC Membership record in the AMS system -
https://portal.isoc.org/EBusiness/Home.aspx - shows first:

     "Make a Contribution"
     "Contributions are fully tax-deductible!"

We had asked "In how many of the countries where there are ISOC members is this true --
contributions to ISOC are tax-deductible?" - of course this relates to the USA.

But there are additional facts related to the membership in this US-registered
organization ISOC, about which probably not many are aware of. - During a Barcamp in
Cambodia in 2009 with about 800 participants we had several visitors from Myanmar,
who were eager to build international links, if they would get the permission to
hold a Barcamp in Yangon. This became possible on very short notice in January 2010.
They planned for up to 500 participants; but on Friday evening they had already 1000
registered, and for Saturday and Sunday there were 2700.

I had been invited to speak to the plenary, elaborating our experiences in
Cambodia: "Open Source -- Open Knowledge in Cambodia." As I had mentioned also
the different international networks from which Myanmar was not part of -- ICANN,
ISOC, etc. - I was asked to come again in 2011, where I spoke about "ISOC -- the
international Internet Society in 80 countries not (yet) in Myanmar." - I had
mentioned this plan but was warned by an ISOC Central staff member that it is
not possible that ISOC is involved in such contacts, because ISOC as a registered
not-for-profit in the USA is bound to observe an international boycott/embargo
on Myanmar. So I bought the airline ticket myself and paid for visa and hotel
from my own resources promoting ISOC without (I hope) violating US law
regulating ISOC.

The Barcamp Yangon in the following year 2012 with over 3000 participants over
a weekend was opened by Aung San Suu Kyi.

Norbert Klein
ISOC Cambodia Chapter

On 20-Oct-13 00:31, Grigori Saghyan wrote:
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> Dear Paul,
> thank you for clarification. ISOC.AM want to be member of ISOC family,
> we share all Internet Society principles, we want to be involved in
> the Internet Society activity. But once more, we are not able to be a
> subsidiary of any foreign organization - if we are an organization,
> even if there is such note - "where appropriate". Individuals have
> rights to become a  member of any NGO, Society, Union, etc. I think
> association of fully independent NGOs might be a solution from formal
> point.
> With respect,
> Grigori Saghyan
> ISOC.AM
>
>
> On 19.10.2013 20:52, Paul Brooks wrote:
>> On 18/10/2013 6:24 AM, Grigori Saghyan wrote:
>>> Dear Norbert, All
>>>
>>> the problem is serious. We have more or less similar situation,
>>> our Chapter must show to Armenian community, that we are a legal
>>> entity, which is working under local law. With current ISOC
>>> ByLaws it is impossible, because each ISOC.AM member must
>>> registered himself as a member of other ISOC, which US based NGO.
>>> Only after that it is possible to become ISOC.AM Armenian NGO
>>> member, and ISOC Armenian Chapter Member. It is a violation of
>>> rights of Armenian citizens, who have rights to become  a member
>>> of any Armenian NGO WITHOUT ANY PRECONDITION like registration
>>> himself a a member of any foreign NGO.
>>>
>>> For us, I am sure for other Chapters too, it is a big problem. We
>>> are unable to act in contradiction with Armenian law - it is
>>> obvious.
>>>
>>> But at the same time  we share ISOC principles, we need to be a
>>> member of ISOC family, we need to be involved in discussions,
>>> participate in the international events, coordinate our activity
>>> with ISOC large community.
>> Grigori, and others - I am not a lawyer, but in many contract
>> negotiations I have heard the phrase from real lawyers "you can
>> only do what you can do". It is not reasonable to be expected to do
>> things that you cannot do - including where that is not legal in
>> your jurisdiction.
>>
>> To your point above about membership of ISOC - that paragraph
>> reads: "Establish and maintain the Chapter with a minimum of 25
>> individual members who must be members of the Internet Society;"
>>
>> Unless there is some punctuation or additional words that should
>> have been there and is missing, one way of interpreting this
>> sentence is  -  as long as 25 of your members choose to be members
>> of ISOC, a chapter will comply with this sentence, even if the
>> remainder choose not to be members of ISOC. There seems not to be
>> any need to compel members to also join ISOC, clearly you can only
>> do what is legal within your jurisdiction.
>>
>> Members join the local chapter first. In jurisdictions where it is
>> legal, that chapter membership might also automatically come with
>> ISOC membership attached. In countries where it is not legal to
>> compel members to become members of a foreign organisation, it
>> might have to be optional to do so, as these ISOC principles can
>> not be expected to override local laws.
>>
>> On the issue of ISOC stipulating clauses that must be in the local
>> chapter by-laws, note the words "where appropriate" in the sentence
>> "These documents will, *where appropriate*" in paragraph 3. Each
>> chapter can interpret which requirements are appropriate for their
>> particular circumstance and jurisdiction. In Australia's case, our
>> by-laws do not define any maximum number of terms that an
>> individual may hold office. For us, paragraph 3.3 is not
>> appropriate. We comply with requirements which are appropriate and
>> consistent with our by-laws. That is all anyone should expect.
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> - -- 
> Grigori Saghyan
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