[Chapter-delegates] Fwd: Renewal Internet Society Chapter Charter

Mon Nov 18 11:24:54 PST 2013

+1 on the last question, Grigori.
Ted?

On 11/18/13 14:21, Grigori Saghyan wrote:
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> Dear All,
> I do not think, that the quantity of signatures are reflecting the
> real situation. Looks, that  for some Chapters only the fact, that
> they are formally "ISOC Chapters" is enough  argument to sign the
> proposed document.
> Today Internet Society has serious challenges, and it is possible to
> find an  adequate answer  to these challenges  is possible, if there
> is common understanding of current problems. And formal description of
> the status of the Chapter is one of the most important points.
> I do not think, that ISOC with 25 Chapters, who have sign proposed
> document is a real power. BTW - who they are?
> With respect
> Grigori Saghyan
> ISOC.AM
>
> On 18.11.2013 21:50, Veni Markovski wrote:
>> Hi, everyone. In the beginning - *please, read all my comments, as
>> there's important question, concerning ALL chapters at the end. *
>>
>> Isn't this something we already discussed? I am not quite following
>> the list, but I thought that some weeks ago we talked about the
>> fact that ISOC HQ requesting such a document from chapters around
>> the globe, is a mistake. I thought that someone has actually made
>> the case why it is not possible - neither legally, nor from
>> political point of view. The suggestion that if a chapter cannot
>> sign this document, it can become an organizational member is also
>> strange - are org members now non-paying? I thought they pay some
>> sponsorship to ISOC. Hope I misunderstood the concept?
>>
>> Those, who have already signed a wrong document, are not good
>> enough argument for the rest to sign it, too.
>>
>> I personally see no need to hurry, do you? (Of course, there is
>> the personal moment - if such a requirement is in the quarterly
>> goals of some people at ISOC?)
>>
>> I am afraid that the 23 chapters Ted says have agreed to the MPS,
>> might not have checked with lawyers, or might not have understood
>> completely what they are signing, or might have believed that they
>> are signing a document, which has not importance whatsoever. And
>> last, but not least, may be they come from countries, where signing
>> such a document is not important. Note, that we still have not
>> addressed with the ISOC membership database - the fact that on US
>> territory, a US-based legal entity is keeping data for Europeans,
>> at the same time, when ISOC itself is protesting against Prism,
>> ACTA, TPP and other dangerous initiatives.
>>
>> I believe someone also asked on this list *ISOC HQ to respond to
>> the question: *how can a chapter support the operating principles
>> of ISOC? Is there a Board resolution, asking the staff to request
>> this from the chapters? Now, I guess, we need to ask for some
>> background information - who decided this is a requirement? How
>> would it be enforced? What would happen, if it is not followed? Why
>> would ISOC give its staff to waive any of the requirements? If
>> there is a waiver, would it be more natural for the chapters to
>> decide which ones of the requirements fit into their legal model
>> and statutes, and thus solve the whole problem? Is it not more fair
>> for the chapters to actually "waive", rather than for a staffer,
>> who may not even understand the cross-cultural differences or the
>> legal background.
>>
>> Hope this is helpful.
>>
>>
>> On 11/18/13 12:19, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>>> Hi Ted, Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I don't have a problem with the intention of the document.
>>> However there may be some local obstacles, and the Canada Chapter
>>> has submitted the renewal document to our own legal review.
>>>
>>> Specifically: non-profit orgs in Canada must have clearly stated
>>> objectives in their applications for incorporation. The Canada
>>> Chapter may - we likely will - have problems with local
>>> regulators if we legally obligate to objectives that are both
>>> foreign (ie. housed in Reston) and not completely known (what if
>>> ISOC HQ objectives and priorities change after we incorporate?)
>>>
>>> The current core values of ISOC are hard coded into the Canadian
>>> bylaws and beyond controversy. It is reference to external,
>>> potentially volatile objectives that worries local regulators.
>>>
>>> In this light, I would personally prefer that the "paper" link
>>> between chapters and HQ be in the form of a flexible
>>> partnership-based Memorandum of Understanding, rather than the
>>> current doc that more resembles a franchise agreement. An MoU
>>> approach offers the extra flexibility that chapters may require,
>>> to adapt the ISOC vision to best address local environments. It
>>> requires more mutual trust than a formal contract...  But really,
>>> without a heightened level of mutual trust, can we really achieve
>>> our shared goals as well as we need to?
>>>
>>> Evan Leibovitch President Internet Society Canada Chapter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
>>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> --
>>
>> Best, Veni Markovski http://www.veni.com
>> https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski https://twitter.com/veni
>>
>> The opinions expressed above are those of the author, not of any
>> organizations, associated with or related to him in any given way.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ As an Internet
>> Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to this
>> list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>
> - -- 
> Grigori Saghyan
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> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>

-- 

Best,
Veni Markovski
http://www.veni.com
https://www.facebook.com/venimarkovski
https://twitter.com/veni

The opinions expressed above are those of the
author, not of any organizations, associated
with or related to him in any given way.

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