[Chapter-delegates] Trustees! not staff! Re: Announcement about the dissolution of ISOC-KH

Tue Nov 5 09:14:18 PST 2013

+1 Glenn

Thank you
--
Warm Regards,
Talha Habib

* Sent from Galaxy Note
On Nov 5, 2013 8:53 PM, "Glenn McKnight" <contact at internetsociety.ca> wrote:

> Hi All
> It's interesting reading this forum how  many of the writers  are
> dissatisified with the staff performance and in particular with the
>  Chapter  MOU.
>
> Perhaps  we need to do some metrics and have a survey completed by an
> independent group to everyone on the performance of ISOC  from Top to
> Bottom.
>
> Some of the poison pen stuff and finger pointing isn't helpful and it's
> getting people's  backs up.  We should be working colloboratively and
> building a positive spirit but  reading this delegate list  it's  a bit
> disconcerting.
>
> Glenn
>
> Glenn McKnight
> Membership Outeach
> ISOC Canada Chapter
> skype gmcknight
> "The Internet is for Everyone"
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM, Christian de Larrinaga <cdel at firsthand.net
> > wrote:
>
>> Actually I think it is the Trustees who need to wake up and smell the
>> coffee. We in part elect them. They are our representatives.
>>
>> I am not clear what Trustees want to achieve with a network of chapters
>> as part of the new mission based ISOC organisation. I hope Trustees will
>> set out some thoughts and ideas for what they want for chapters and set
>> out a process including chapters directly to establish a plan how that
>> can be optimally implemented.
>>
>> The recent letter we all received had more than an attitudinal tinge of
>> "sign and shut up" about it which is not helpful if you genuinely want
>> partners around the world defining and delivering your mission. It may
>> be that the trustees want to act only through the staff and see chapters
>> as a way to spread the footprint to elect some trustees and do some
>> fringe activities convening local people. If that is the case then make
>> that clear please.
>>
>> I genuinely need to know what the trustees want with chapters. I don't
>> need the whole journey defined before Christmas but it would be helpful
>> to get sight of the first steps at least and a vision for how "we" can
>> define the journey, so by this time next year there is clarity.
>>
>> Christian
>> > David Solomonoff <mailto:president at isoc-ny.org>
>> > 5 November 2013 03:12
>> > This is tragic - both for Cambodia's netizens (past, present and
>> > future) and for ISOC.
>> >
>> > It will have long-term negative consequences for the global
>> > organization in ways that are hard to anticipate. But first and
>> > foremost will be the temptation for other Chapters to dissolve or
>> > dissociate whenever there is disagreement.
>> >
>> > If other Chapters follow a similar path, the credibility - and even
>> > the viability - of ISOC will be severely damaged.
>> >
>> > The ISOC staff who allowed this to happen have made a grievous error.
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > On 11/03/2013 09:26 PM, Chantra Be wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > David Solomonoff, President
>> > Internet Society of New York
>> > president at isoc-ny.org
>> > isoc-ny.org
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> > Chantra Be <mailto:chantra.be at gmail.com>
>> > 4 November 2013 02:26
>> >
>> > *Dear All,*
>> >
>> > *On 26 October 2013, a meeting was held according to Article XII of
>> > the Bylaws of the Cambodian Chapter of the Internet Society:*
>> >
>> > *Article XII. - Dissolution of the Chapter*
>> >
>> > 1. Dissolution of this Chapter by consent of the members shall consist
>> > of unanimous agreement of all its officers together with a majority
>> > vote at a meeting which has been publicized in advance to all members
>> > of the Chapter for the purpose of taking this vote.
>> >
>> > *2. Should this Chapter be dissolved, its assets shall be transferred
>> > to ISOC International Headquarters.*
>> >
>> >
>> > The meeting had been called on 23 September 2013, stating:
>> >
>> >
>> > “It is to propose – unless real and practical alternatives are
>> > identified within the following month – to call a meeting of all
>> > members of our Chapter for the purpose of taking a vote to dissolve
>> > the ISOC Cambodia Chapter.”
>> >
>> >
>> > *The meeting decided to dissolve the ISOC Cambodia Chapter; this
>> > decision becomes effective after the present Announcement will have
>> > been sent out:*
>> >
>> >   * - to all members of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter
>> >   * - to the Chapter Delegates list of ISOC
>> >   * - to the Chairperson of the Board of ISOC
>> >   * - to the ISOC Senior Director, Membership & Services (You had
>> >     written: “If the Cambodian Chapter wishes to rescind its ISOC
>> >     chapter status, a letter so stating to the APAC Chapter
>> >     Development manager is sufficient” - would you please forward it
>> >     there – or also to other persons in ISOC beyond the APAC office
>> >     who might want to know.)
>> >
>> >
>> > This decision was taken drawing together the conclusions of the
>> > correspondence with ISOC staff and ISOC Chapter leaders: we appreciate
>> > very much the many encouraging comments from other Chapters, and we
>> > regret that the expected correspondence from ISOC staff – regional and
>> > central – was late, or not forthcoming at all, and not proposing real
>> > and practical steps ahead.
>> >
>> >
>> > *The following is to be more specific:*
>> >
>> > In response to the “Interim Information: Serious considerations to
>> > dissolve the Cambodia ISOC Chapter” which wehad sent to you and to
>> > ISOC Chapter leaders and ISOC staff on 16 Oct 2013, we received the
>> > following response from Ted Mooney - ISOC Senior Director, Membership
>> > & Services – on 18 October 2013, under the Subject line “Communication
>> > and moving forward with the ISOC Cambodia Chapter.”
>> >
>> > I quote /the mail from Ted Mooney here in Italics/, to distinguish it
>> > from comments from other Chapter leaders and from our own side.
>> >
>> > /Dear Chantra Be,
>> >
>> > I've followed with great interest the responses from Norbert Klein on
>> > the Chapter Delegates e-list. I want you to know that I and many of us
>> > at ISOC have thoroughly read your original email more than once and
>> > the subsequent messages from Mr. Klein. I have researched the claims
>> > made regarding the correspondences between ISOC Staff and the
>> > Cambodian Chapter and the outreach attempts made on both sides. It is
>> > evident that Staff has a different interpretation of the data than has
>> > the Chapter. It is, in my opinion therefore, not constructive to dwell
>> > on the past but to address the issues raised in your message, once
>> again.
>> > /
>> > Ted Mooney refers again to outreach attempts supposedly made by ISOC
>> > staff.
>> >
>> > This is not the first time such claims are made, and therefore we had
>> > responded:
>> >
>> > - We do not know “what has been communicated to” the ISOC Senior
>> > Director, Membership & Services in this respect – but the situation
>> > continues: neither the Singapore based ISOC ASIA PACIFIC staff, nor
>> > the ISOC Chapter Development Manager, Asia-Pacific, nor the ISOC
>> > Senior Director, Membership & Services have responded to the detailed
>> > content in the mail from our Secretary...
>> > *- But if such mail was sent and we did not receive it for whatever
>> > reason – it would be appropriate to share it here on the Chapters list.*
>> >
>> >   * *
>> >     *
>> >   * *Instead of using this opportunity to provide copies of such mail,
>> >     we received again just the same baseless claims.*
>> >
>> >
>> > More serious is that he says /“It is, in my opinion therefore, not
>> > constructive to dwell on the past.”/- He had criticized our sharing of
>> > concerns about the non-responsiveness of ISOC staff with other
>> > Chapters and the Chairperson of the ISOC Boardto be unprofessional. He
>> > is continuing to refuse to deal with serious problems. I repeat again
>> > our mail which related to one of the two staff at the Asia Pacific
>> > Regional Office:
>> >
>> > = = =
>> >
>> > *“ Dear Thip,
>> > **After having received your mail, rejecting our request to serious
>> > discuss the crisis for our Chapter, created as a result of the general
>> > situation and legal requirements in Cambodia in the meeting, and the
>> > refusal to ISOC staff to positively pay attention to our situation, we
>> > do not think it would be appropriate to cooperate, as a Chapter, with
>> > organizing a meeting for your 1 - 2.5 hours event, for which you would
>> > like to invite the Members of the Cambodia Chapter and other
>> > non-Chapter members. To discuss fundamental problems within ISOC,
>> > affecting the whole membership, only among officers, as you suggest
>> > (which has been tried in vain by email so far) would not be in line
>> > with our history to promote and practice open communication – high
>> > values regularly lifted up among the goals of the Internet Society
>> > world wide and in its slogan: the Internet is for everyone.**
>> >
>> > The situation and this response has been shared and discussed with the
>> > Members of the Advisory Board of our Chapter and is unanimously
>> supported.
>> >
>> > Norbert Klein
>> > President, ISOC-KH
>> >
>> > *The five members of our Advisory Board at that time were (reflecting
>> > the stipulation of our Bylaws “The Advisory Board of five members,
>> > from important sections of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter membership”):
>> >
>> > - the Head of the IT in Education Section in the Ministry of Education
>> > - the Editor in Chief of a leading Cambodian daily newspaper, who is
>> > at the same time President of the Club of Cambodian Journalists
>> > - the President and CEO of a major broadband providing ISP
>> > - a senior staff member in the office of the Council of Ministers of
>> > the Government of Cambodia, and
>> > - one student.
>> >
>> > = = =
>> >
>> > We do not have much confidence in regional and central staff of ISOC
>> > that has damaged the formerly good name of ISOC in Cambodian society,
>> > and no word is seen from them to apologize publicly or to rectify this
>> > – but instead it is considered that we are unprofessional to raise
>> > such unsolved problems. We do not think it is acceptable that ISOC
>> > staff visits a country, refuses to discuss the problems identified as
>> > important by a Chapter, holds her own meeting to which she invited
>> > some people who said they did not know an hour ago that ISOC exists –
>> > and she encourages them to become members and run for leadership in
>> > the elections one month later. And senior staff of ISOC just keeps
>> silent.
>> >
>> > The Documentation Center of Cambodia - www.dccam.org
>> > <http://www.dccam.org> – has in every mail originating from themthe
>> > sentence:
>> >
>> > *“...a society cannot know itself if it does not have an accurate
>> > memory of its own history.”*
>> >
>> > The Internet Society would do well to consider this also for itself,
>> > on its way into a better future.
>> >
>> >
>> > Ted Mooney continues:
>> >
>> > /*1.* Chapter by-laws. From various correspondences and information
>> > sent to the Cambodia Chapter, including examples of by-laws from other
>> > chapters and stated flexibility to address the local needs dating back
>> > to 2011, I would like to re-iterate the flexibility of the Chapter
>> > By-laws template to assure that agreed Chapter By-laws account for all
>> > local laws and special circumstances with respect to jurisdiction,
>> > foreign affiliation and governance.
>> > /
>> > What he calls flexibility seems more to be a situation of confusion in
>> > ISOC operations. It is obvious from the correspondence on the Chapters
>> > list - that not all Chapters have been made to accept what is now in
>> > our Bylaws – but these problematic elements continue to be on the ISOC
>> > website as “mandatory” elements. And while he informs us that we are
>> > free to flexibly apply the Chapters Bylaws template, at the same time
>> > “Renewal Chapter Charter letters” are going out to be signed and
>> > returned by 15 December 2013, including “chapter minimum standards”
>> > stating that if a Chapter does not meet "one or more" a process of
>> > “rejuvenation” will be initiated.
>> >
>> > One Chapter chair commented: “Somehow I miss all these in the ISOC
>> > by-laws, but may be someone can enlighten us?”
>> >
>> > There is obviously no clarity and broad agreement with Chapters at
>> > present about the content and role of Chapter Bylaws, as some of the
>> > Chapter Delegatesmails show – with reference to a lot of time spent
>> > for nothing in the past (*highlighting added*in our quoting):
>> >
>> > *-------- Original Message -------- *
>> >
>> > *Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Fwd: Renewal Internet Society
>> > Chapter Charter
>> > Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 15:44:09 +0200
>> > From: Klaus Birkenbihl <Klaus.Birkenbihl at Isoc.de>
>> > Organization: Internet Society German Chapter e.V. (ISOC.DE
>> > <http://ISOC.DE>)
>> > To: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>> > <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>> > <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>> > <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ...I also don't foresee much change in practice if we sign the letter.
>> > Nevertheless it is the wrong thing at the wrong time. During the last
>> > years when chapters became more visible and active we discussed so
>> > many beautiful things that could give support and help to be more
>> > effective. E.g. Issue Trackers to identify issues and track their
>> > resolution, Wikis to support collaboration and many other things the
>> > Internet holds that other groups use to do better work. So next thing
>> > we expected to see was some progress here.
>> >
>> > But instead of picking up e.g. the prototype that was provided by
>> > Elena, we still lack reporting facilities for projects and problems,
>> > collaboration tools, we stick to the old work-intensive AMS to
>> > exchange our member data … But what we get is another version of the
>> > Letter of Affiliation.
>> >
>> > Please keep in mind: it is effort, money and time that is provided by
>> > chapters members that is used to do the work.
>> >
>> > Financial support by ISOC is rather marginal. (Did you e.g ever manage
>> > to organize an event for $2000? For our last event even the fee for
>> > the room was higher.) Knowing that ISOC lacks the budget to pay them,
>> > chapters - though complaining once and a while - continue to work on
>> > this base.
>> >
>> > The Letter of Association says ISOC wants you to perform such and
>> > such, wants to define a maximum number of terms for office holders [is
>> > this really a mission related concern?], and you need ["we believe in
>> > numbers"] to have that many individual members, [can it be summed-up
>> > with corporations? - AMS still don't let me report corporate members]
>> > and so forth. Read this while keeping in mind that its chapters time,
>> > chapters money, chapters effort. Doesn't it annoy you?
>> >
>> > I don't say we should be against the Letters of Association but given
>> > the situation as it is - they should be the result of negotiations and
>> > not a headquarters dictatorship.
>> >
>> > Maybe the newly to be created Chapters Advisory would be the group to
>> > develop a template that fulfills 2 criteria:
>> >
>> > - it is balanced in terms of responsibility and control, benefit and
>> > achievements
>> > - it allow**s**to be adjusted to needs of individual chapters (e.g.
>> > those with a commercial branch, or with corporate members, or with a
>> > special focus like accessibility ...)
>> >
>> > Such Letter of Association could have a real effect.
>> >
>> > Klaus*
>> >
>> > *=*
>> >
>> > /*2.* The Chapter Administrative Support Working Group is now meeting
>> > regularly to discuss various ways to address Chapter issues regarding
>> > operational resources. As you have noted from the discussion in this
>> > email forum, there is a wide disparity of views and therefore,
>> > multiple solutions may be piloted.
>> >
>> > It is regrettable that this has not come together as quickly as the
>> > Cambodia Chapter has needed, so we hope that you will reconsider your
>> > voluntary de-chartering until there are more widely available support
>> > options for you to evaluate. Please do keep in mind that local
>> > self-sufficiency will always be a key component of any operations
>> > resource strategy.
>> > /
>> > While local self-sufficiency is a broadly understandable principle,
>> > the way this issue has been treated so far seems to have seen this as
>> > a financial affair. We have not seen response to the much more complex
>> > situation, where many people in Cambodia have, over the years and
>> > again recently, been self-sufficient in providing their energy, their
>> > health, their freedom, and in some cases their lives in the struggle
>> > for justice and in the struggle to be free to communicate about it.
>> > Alot of public support, legal assistance, and care for victims, is
>> > however not based on local finances, but is provided by organizations
>> > and institutions extending external solidarity funding support.
>> >
>> > We have shared information that communication technology and
>> > information networks are fairly well developed in Cambodia and there
>> > are working groups, regular activities, IXPs, organized structures,
>> > Barcamps (the most recent one a week ago with more than 2000
>> > participants)– quite a number of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter members
>> > provided leadership in these fields. Our inquiry if ISOC could
>> > financially assist in setting up and initially operating an office was
>> > clearly related to the specific government regulations (*following the
>> > ISOC staff guided Bylaw: “The Chapter shall be established as a
>> > non-profit organization under the laws of Cambodia”*).
>> >
>> > If ISOC staff considers financial /“local self-sufficiency [...]
>> > always be a key component of any operations resource strategy”/we are
>> > out for the time being.
>> >
>> > One comment on the Chapter list had said there is no need for us to
>> > defend ourselves – ISOC staff may have to defend themselves instead.
>> > We leave this open – but if anybody is interested in our context, you
>> > may find some more information about local contributions at the Annex
>> > at the end of our Documentation to be sent out separately. This
>> > material – voices from the Chapters - may be of value for the work
>> > following a recent ISOC Board decision that “acknowledged the right of
>> > Chapters to form an advisory group.”
>> >
>> > /*3.* We once again call upon the Cambodia Chapter to a) participate
>> > with ISOC staff in a conference call to speak forthrightly about the
>> > issues you raise, b) participate in the regularly scheduled Asia
>> > Chapter Webex calls in which most other Asia chapters are now
>> > participating. Regarding, a) above, we have noted your concern that
>> > many Cambodia Chapter officers cannot attend a call at one time for
>> > work-related and other obligations. We are very willing to have
>> > multiple calls to accommodate various schedules and to be held at
>> > times that allow as many officers to attend as possible.
>> > /
>> > We did not participate lately in such conference calls or webinars as
>> > our experience over the years is that such talks did not lead to much
>> > results. Especially multiple sessions on the same subject ended up
>> > with open questions: What was really discussed or decided? Email
>> > exchanges leave much clearer records.
>> >
>> > /On another note, there is currently a Chapter workshop in Bali ahead
>> > of the IGF. I hope the Cambodian representative will take the
>> > opportunity to speak to Naveed ul Haq, Chapter Development Manager for
>> > Asia, Joyce Dogniez Director of Chapter Development and Raj Singh our
>> > Regional Bureau Director. Such a conversation presents an additional
>> > opportunity to resolve timing conflicts and help us all get to a
>> > resolution of the issues.
>> > /
>> > Ted Mooney added:
>> >
>> > /“This is unfortunate as there is a travel fellowship available for
>> > the each Asia Chapter to attend in which expenses are covered. My
>> > assumption was that surely you would take advantage of such funding
>> > from ISOC particularly when your representative would have a forum
>> > with ISOC executives in which to discuss your specific issue. Why did
>> > you chose not to attend?”
>> > /
>> > The fact that intensive communication on the Chapter list, with
>> > several calls from various Chapter leaders calling on ISOC staff –
>> > central and regional – to respond to the contents of our mail did not
>> > result in such responses, was not an indication that to meet in Bali
>> > would provide the practical and timely responses we were hoping for.
>> > We did not want to ask for such international travel support for one
>> > person to talk to ISOC staff traveling to Bali to talk about things
>> > for which the 90 ISOC staff and advisors could not organize written
>> > responses in the months and weeks before.
>> >
>> > And finally, Ted Mooney said:
>> >
>> > /“Also, I think we needn't burden Chapter Delegates with a lengthy and
>> > hopefully fruitful conversation between us in email. I will no longer
>> > be posting my responses to you to the entire list.”
>> > /
>> > Here the ISOC Senior Director, Membership & Services, is obviously not
>> > in line with the many Chapter leaders who were interested and did
>> > actively participate in the related discussions on the Chapters list.
>> > As Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA from the Niger Chapter wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > *Hi all,
>> > +1 Veni! [Bulgaria]
>> >
>> > In my previous mail I tried to share a quiet simple idea of the
>> > "ecosystem" of ISOC. Veni summarized what this ecosystem must be. I'm
>> > just thinking it just a global decentralized process, as Chapters
>> > don't be considered as "subsidiaries" of company with an HQ and Board
>> > of Trustees!
>> >
>> > BTW, I agree 200% with Veni about the fact, and keeping in mind that
>> > "the strength of a chain is based on the quality of its weakest link".
>> > Hence, let's support each other to move steadily and forward a visible
>> > thread, so even the newcomers can jump easy in one the various wagons
>> > of ISOC.
>> >
>> > Keep on talking, talking again, in the only aim to ... to sharpen our
>> > current and future actions and overcome inherent difficulties of our
>> > Global "institution".
>> >
>> > All the best
>> >
>> > Ousmane
>> > Niger Chapter
>> > *
>> > We continue to share our communication.
>> >
>> >
>> > We are committed to the “basic values” for which many persons around
>> > the world became members of the ISOC – and it is our assumption that
>> > many of our present Chapter members may want to continue to be members
>> > of ISOC, for which they had to sign up before being able to become
>> > members of a chapter.
>> >
>> > Probably there will also be an informal fellowship of “Friends of the
>> > Internet in Cambodia” - and there may be interest in the future to see
>> > how the recent decisions of the ISOC Board thataffirmed the role of
>> > chapters in the governance and mission of the Internet Society will
>> > work out, especially when a Chapters Advisory Group will have done its
>> > work and hopefully the clarification of the role and relation of staff
>> > and chapters may lead to a new start of ISOC.
>> >
>> >
>> > Be Chantra
>> >
>> > chantra.be at gmail.com <mailto:chantra.be at gmail.com>
>> >
>> > (still) Secretary of the ISOC Cambodia Chapter
>> >
>> > until this announcement is sent out.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> > to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> > Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
>> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
>> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
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