[Chapter-delegates] ISOC Bylaws Working Group (BLWG)
John More
morej1 at mac.com
Tue May 7 15:03:07 PDT 2013
Maureen
Hard to see how this is a question of "definition", unless there were a definition that a Chapter is a completely independent body that can use the ISOC name and go its own way. I am uncertain of the specifics, but I can see that there may be a difference between having a Webpage hosting other organizations and advertising/blogging about what these other organizations were contributing. ISOC may have legitimate concerns about the former. I say "may" since I don't have all the facts.
John More
On May 7, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Maureen Hilyard <hilyard at oyster.net.ck> wrote:
> We had an interesting experience when we offered a page on our PICISOC
> website for national IT organisations that included PICISOC members within
> their respective countries. We wanted to showcase what was being done by
> PICISOC members from our 22 Pacific countries.
>
> We were told by ISOC that because these organisations were not ISOC
> chapters, we could not put them onto our site.
>
> The choice to recognise our own members and how they are encouraging ISOC
> objectives through their own national organisations was not ours. We had
> wanted to spread that message, but were not permitted to do so on our
> PICISOC website.
>
> So how are we defined?
>
> Maureen
> Pacific Islands
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
> [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of John More
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2013 8:34 a.m.
> To: Grigori Saghyan
> Cc: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Bylaws Working Group (BLWG)
>
> Grigori
>
> I know from your past postings that the Armenian Chapter must comply with
> Armenian law. I doubt that anyone would disqualify your Chapter because
> Armenians must join the Chapter first (or perhaps exclusively). Your
> question should be answered, but I do not think there has to be a definition
> in the Bylaws.
>
>> From my viewpoint, the status of any individual Chapter depends upon what
> is permissible under the laws of its local jurisdiction. One size does not
> fit all.
>
> In fact, it would be a mistake to define a Chapter too narrowly.
>
> Certain guidelines could be issued by ISOC to provide some clarity. The
> definition should not be put into the Bylaws, in order to preserve
> flexibility. In particular, any implication that the Bylaws written under
> the laws of the District of Columbia, where ISOC is chartered, should govern
> the legal structure of Chapters created under other jurisdictions should be
> avoided.
>
> Clearly Chapters are not departments of ISOC. They clearly are organized
> groups of individuals who share the goals of ISOC and wish to be part of its
> activities on the local level (and presumably also the international). I
> would assume all have some sort of "Bylaws" or similar document creating
> some sort of statement of goals and governance. So I would think that a non
> formal organization could be a Chapter but could not be without ByLaws
> (perhaps better expressed as a "governing document").
>
> In writing this, I am not speaking on behalf of the Society or of the
> Washington DC Chapter. My thoughts are based on my having creating
> nonprofits in the US (including for internationally oriented nonprofits) as
> a lawyer with insights from my international law practice and from being a
> community organizer.
>
> Regards,
>
> John More
>
> On May 7, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
>
>> dear Ted, All,
>> I think the most important point is to define the status of the Chapter:
>> Is it an organization?
>> Is it department of ISOC global without its organizational structure
>> and its own by-law?
>> Is it a non-formal organization without its own by-laws?
>>
>> We have serious problems in our country, and formally we have to
>> involve any Armenian citizen in ISOC Armenian Chapter NGO as a member
>> - without any preliminary registration this newcomer as an ISOC global
> member.
>> According to existing ISOC ByLaws it is impossible.
>> Grigori Saghyan
>> ISOC.AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 07.05.2013 17:29, Ted Mooney wrote:
>>> Greetings, Christian,
>>>
>>> Please see my administrative clarifications in-line below. Note I
>>> have only addressed specific mechanisms and not the full content of
>>> your comments, which is better left to those in authority.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>> Ted Mooney
>>> Sr. Director, Membership & Services
>>> Cell: 301-980-6446
>>> Skype: ted.mooney3
>>>
>>> www.internetsociety.org <http://www.internetsociety.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 7, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Christian de Larrinaga
>>> <cdel at firsthand.net <mailto:cdel at firsthand.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Avri
>>>>
>>>> The chapter delegates and president's list already are long standing
>>>> vehicles for liaison and sharing between chapters. So surely we can
>>>> use those to get things going?
>>>>
>>>> I am not clear what the idea behind an advisory council as is being
>>>> called would be? Perhaps it will be made clearer after the ByLaws
>>>> team reports.
>>>>
>>> The recommended update to the by-laws provides an explicit right
>>> (implicit today) for chapters to organize a chapter advisory body to
>>> advise the President and the BoT on matters important to the Community.
>>>> Observationally the functions that emerge from your comment below
>>>> are
>>>>
>>>> a - Chartering and good governance of chapters b - Appeals by
>>>> chapters c - Liaison between chapters d - Advisory to ISOC Board of
>>>> Trustees
>>>>
>>>> Is that about right?
>>>>
>>> Within the current recommended by-laws, the chapter chartering
>>> process (a. above) is unchanged.
>>>
>>>> If the organisational advisory council is the model being assumed by
>>>> the ByLaws team then it would suggest that none of the above
>>>> functions are governance in the sense that no binding decisions are
>>>> made impacting one of the members by the AC.
>>>>
>>>> If that is the case it would then assume another structure makes the
>>>> ultimate decisions.
>>>>
>>>> The obvious body would be the Board of Trustees.
>>>>
>>>> So any chapter activity would inform, discuss, liaise provide input
>>>> and feedback and develop consensus where possible between chapters
>>>> and communicate such with the community in particular in reference
>>>> to the ISOC Board.
>>>>
>>>> In that sense it would not have a governance role but would be a
>>>> handy function for what I believe does need to be in the ByLaws
>>>> which is requirement for the Trustees to support activities that
>>>> inform, educate and provide consensus development within and between
>>>> ISOC constituencies (elector communities) and in communications with the
> board.
>>>>
>>> Such a request was not among the comments received and so has not
>>> been considered. However, this may be considered implicit in both the
>>> mission statement and other areas of the by-laws and ISOC publicly
>>> stated principles.
>>>> i.e., I don't think the Bylaws need wait on one or another
>>>> particular structure being formally established by chapters but
>>>> instead should provide a requirement that makes it attractive for
>>>> the Board to set in motion support and resources that would assist
>>>> in satisfying that requirement.
>>>>
>>> This is within both the spirit and implementation of the recommended
>>> by-laws update.
>>>> As to appeals. I agree with you. This seems to me to be a primary
>>>> role for the ISOC Trustees which acts as ultimate appeal authority
>>>> for a number of bodies in IETF as well.
>>>>
>>> This provision is in the recommendation.
>>>> Having said that the recent experience of the board vote on ECC
>>>> structure led to a Trustee vote without presenting a draft
>>>> resolution to the community to comment at all. The ByLaws need to
>>>> ensure that Board resolutions particularly those impacting its
>>>> communities of constituent electors are given sufficient air time
>>>> for comment before a vote is finally taken. A gap of one board
>>>> meeting in advance would seem one approach.
>>>>
>>>> There may be need for emergency resolutions to be passed of course
>>>> and that is acceptable but they should be subject to later review so
>>>> there is an opportunity to wind these back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Avri Doria wrote:
>>>>> This is the response I sent on another list to the email below.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was one of the conundrums, without some sort of structure,
>>>>>> for example a Chapter Advisory Council, there was no mechanism for
>>>>>> collective Chapter decisions on issues like chartering and
>>>>>> de-chartering. And the bylaws committee was not the place for
>>>>>> designing such a mechanism. Doing that is something that the
>>>>>> Charters need to do for themselves. That is part of the whole
>>>>>> process of the Chapters developing the Chapter Advisory Council
>>>>>> and designating its role and responsibilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internet Society staff remains responsible for the process at this
>>>>>> point, but I believe they need to work with the Chapters to figure
>>>>>> out how this should be handled. And I understood that they were
>>>>>> ready to do so. I also beleive that once mechanisms have been
>>>>>> developed, the Chapters will be able to ask for by-laws changes
>>>>>> that might be necessary to enable the mechanisms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> avri
>>>>>
>>>>> Additional note: So it makes sense to me to start figuring out how
>>>>> the chapters are going to create the Chapter Advisory Council. The
>>>>> sooner that happens, the sooner the Chapters will be able to claim
>>>>> they have the necessary mechanisms for managing these process with
>>>>> the assistance of the staff instead of having the staff managing
>>>>> the processes consultation of the chapters.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still think we will need an appeals mechanism even after the
>>>>> Chapter Advisory Council comes into existence for there is no
>>>>> assurance that self rule will be just rule in all cases.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> avri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6 May 2013, at 02:16, CW Mail wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good morning:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the light of more than two years of past discussions of the
>>>>>>>> revision of the ISOC Bylaws, allow me to draw your attention to
>>>>>>>> the current work of the newly established Bylaws Working Group.
>>>>>>>> The minutes of their meeting which took place on 14 March 2013
>>>>>>>> have been posted:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/BLWGUpdate15M
>>>>>>>> AR20131final.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is good that these matters are finally being addressed in an
>>>>>>>> operationally effective manner. I trust that the questions of .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Chapter Membership of ISOC,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -balanced representation in the BoT, including regional
>>>>>>>> diversity and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -consultation of Chapters on policy development . will be
>>>>>>>> satisfactorily resolved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have noticed the following extract from the minutes of the 14
>>>>>>>> March meeting:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <<4.Staff has responsibility for chartering and de-chartering
>>>>>>>> Chapters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BLWG suggested peer review appeal panel for de-charter appeal.
>>>>>>>> Should Chapter wish further appeal, it could then bring issue to
> BoT.
>>>>>>>> This will be further discussed.>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would have two comments:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1.It is entirely inappropriate for the ISOC staff to have sole
>>>>>>>> responsibility for chartering and de-chartering Chapters.
>>>>>>>> (Actually, chartering new chapters is currently presented to the
>>>>>>>> BoT for approval.) De-chartering a Chapter may have local,
>>>>>>>> national and regional, practical and political repercussions
>>>>>>>> which go beyond the mandate of the staff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2.A peer review panel should be an essential element of any
>>>>>>>> decision to de-charter a Chapter and should not depend upon an
>>>>>>>> 'appeal'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be appreciated if the BLWG could take these comments
>>>>>>>> into account. Other Chapters may also wish to comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christopher Wilkinson.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
>>>>>> Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
>>>>> Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
>>>> Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
>>> Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grigori Saghyan
>> PGP Key ID: 0x48E4D5DC
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
>> subscribed to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
>> Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed to
> this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter
> Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
> to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society
> Chapter Portal (AMS): https://portal.isoc.org
More information about the Chapter-delegates
mailing list