[Chapter-delegates] Has ISOC signed the Declaration of Internet Freedom?

Wed Jul 4 12:51:26 PDT 2012

Hi all! I totally agree, and I am pleased that ISOC not have signed. Like Markus said, there is nothing wrong with the declaration. But there are two "drafts", they are thin and ISOC have not been involved in its drafting process. More organization have choose not to sign here in Europe like EDRI (Europa) and DFRI (Sweden).

Kind regards,
Linda 

4 jul 2012 kl. 07.15 skrev Markus Kummer:

> Hi all,
> 
> I am a bit late jumping into the discussions, but just as well - Eric, Veni, Alejandro and John have made the points I was going to make. There is nothing wrong with the declaration and it is largely aligned with our principles. However, before signing on to anything someone else has developed, we would have to evaluate carefully the pros and cons. I see no obstacle for individual members or chapters signing on to it, but I see no compelling reason for ISOC as an organization to do so. We have our principles - they are solid and have stood the test of time. As Eric has pointed out, there is already a competing declaration and, seen from Europe, this seems very much a US centric exercise. In any case, I would not even consider signing it without explicit approval of the Board of Trustees.
> 
> As a matter of principle, I question whether ISOC should sign any declaration without having been involved in its drafting process. Also, I am not particularly comfortable with the term "Internet Freedom" (and I made the point at last April's Conference on Internet Freedom in Stockholm). While we all are in favor of freedom,  it can also be a loaded term and is often used for political purposes (who doesn't remember the "freedom fries"?). We usually use "open and global Internet" and try to insert these terms in resolutions and such (like a draft resolution currently under consideration by the United Nations Council for Human Rights). If the Internet is open and interoperable it is also an enabler of freedom.
> 
> I am happy of course to listen to other arguments. However, for the time being at least I do not consider it necessary to bring this matter to the attention of the Board of Trustees.
> 
> Best regards
> Markus
> 
> On Jul 4, 2012, at 6:16 AM, Eric Burger wrote:
> 
>> No one has ever accused ISOC of being quick to shoot. However, we also are known for being deliberate.
>> 
>> How many people on this list would have complained if they found out ISOC had signed this declaration. This has been out for about 30 hours.
>> 
>> I would offer that when we don't like something, we diplomatically say so. Not "jumping on the bandwagon" when every petition comes by is by no means a statement that we are opposed to the principles.
>> 
>> Are you aware there already is a "competing" Declaration of Internet Freedom, that claims it is far superior to the first Declaration of INternet Freedom?
>> 
>> Yes, I am happy that everyone is buying .org's. But on a serious note, as Alex and John has said, we should vet what's going on before we bestow the Internet Society's name, brand, and reputation on the latest petition.
>> 
>> On Jul 3, 2012, at 11:13 PM, David Solomonoff wrote:
>> 
>>> I think there is a real danger here that Khaled is addressing:
>>> 
>>> Vint and Jonathan have signed it. I did after I saw they did as individuals as well as many prestigious organizations ISOC often partners with. Is there something about the statement that is suspicious or problematical?
>>> 
>>> If so it should be addressed. Right now it looks like ISOC is either late to the party or actively opposed to these principles.
>>> 
>>> This kind on non-response can be extremely damaging to ISOC's reputation. And makes it hard for Chapters like ours that try to build relationships with cyberliberties groups at the local level.
>>> 
>>> On 7/3/12 7:22 PM, khaled koubaa wrote:
>>>> I have seen Vint Cerf has signed it as person as well as Jonathan
>>>> Zittrain ( Board member ) as person
>>>> I am also doing it as person. I see this as part of a campaign on
>>>> ITU/WCIT issues
>>>> And honestly I agree with all the declaration so I can not see why
>>>> ISOC don't signed as it what ISOC mission and values outline here :
>>>> http://www.internetsociety.org/who-we-are/mission/values-and-principles
>>>> 
>>>> 2012/7/3 Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<apisan at unam.mx>:
>>>>> David, all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> any more background?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I see reasons to discuss these purported principles but none to jump into an
>>>>> unknown bandwagon without a good check on completeness, bias, alignment...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Further, in other spaces, I've been critical of many "declarations of
>>>>> principles for the Internet", other than the core design principles and
>>>>> their evolution, as they superimpose agendas that the technology is not
>>>>> meant to deliver or fix, and may end up, in fact, creating new constraints.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Plus what I think is the key question, "can you codify 'permanent-beta'"?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just a thought akin to looking at the pool before jumping...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yours,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>>>>> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>>>> 
>>>>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>>>>> 
>>>>> SMS +525541444475
>>>>>     Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>>>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>>>> 
>>>>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>>>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>>>> ---->>  Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Desde: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> [chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] en nombre de David Solomonoff
>>>>> [president at isoc-ny.org]
>>>>> Enviado el: martes, 03 de julio de 2012 11:57
>>>>> Hasta: Chapter Delegates
>>>>> Asunto: [Chapter-delegates] Has ISOC signed the Declaration of Internet
>>>>> Freedom?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Did I miss ISOC on the list of organizational signers?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Declaration
>>>>> 
>>>>> We stand for a free and open Internet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We support transparent and participatory processes for making Internet
>>>>> policy and the establishment of five basic principles:
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Expression: Don't censor the Internet.
>>>>>    Access: Promote universal access to fast and affordable networks.
>>>>>    Openness: Keep the Internet an open network where everyone is free to
>>>>> connect, communicate, write, read, watch, speak, listen, learn, create and
>>>>> innovate.
>>>>>    Innovation: Protect the freedom to innovate and create without
>>>>> permission. Don’t block new technologies, and don’t punish innovators for
>>>>> their users' actions.
>>>>>    Privacy: Protect privacy and defend everyone’s ability to control how
>>>>> their data and devices are used.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.internetdeclaration.org/freedom (via shareaholic)
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>> 
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