[Chapter-delegates] How can ISOC chapters help in the development of IP-based networks?

Wed Dec 15 19:33:11 PST 2010

Veni,

first, you are going to be called to accede to greatness of heart and 
forgive the rest of the world for not being you.

Some poor souls just 
operate differently, others are not as fortunately placed as you are, and 
yet others do their own thing, with similar or superior results, quietly, 
be it out of modesty or because making some activities loudly public would 
hamper their effectiveness. For some, what you are doing would be called 
grandstanding, for others dangerous, for others self-defeating. It depends 
on so many variables!

I do not think that ISOC should encourage chapters to do anything that can 
be construed as medddling in national issues, or allow to create the 
accusation that the chapter serves a foreign power of some sort.

One of the basic requisites to form a chapter is that the chapter must be 
an autonomous, self-standing organization in its country, legally 
constituted and registered according to national law as much as possible 
for the nature of the organizations, conditions of the country, and 
resources available.

We do come together as chapters of an international organization in that 
we share some basic principles ("the Internet is for everyone"), 
information, informed opinion, and other resources.

But it defeats ISOC's purposes, and each chapter's purposes, to act as if 
there were a party line dictated or even recommended to the chapters when 
it comes to being able to cause change in a country's laws or public 
policies. That is within the national remit. Each of us handles it 
differently.

Do you think differently? How would a "you should do this" order from HQ 
match your concurrent claim for bottom-up building of ISOC policy?

Yours,

Alejandro Pisanty

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . .  .  .  .  .  .
      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732

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On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Veni Markovski wrote:

> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:41:33 -0500
> From: Veni Markovski <veni at veni.com>
> To: Alejandro Pisanty <apisan at servidor.unam.mx>
> Cc: Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com>, chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] How can ISOC chapters help in the development
>      of IP-based networks?
> 
> Actually it is not happening the way I described it.
> Yes, ISOC produces documents, but they are (C) ISOC.org , and they are never 
> used by the member states, or the ITU, except as informational documents. 
> They are never discussed.
> I pointed to a document, which had that destiny - see it here: 
> http://www.isoc-dc.org/2010/12/ipv6-%e2%80%93-what-is-it-why-is-it-important-and-who-is-in-charge/ 
> Great document, but it was never used in a discussion at the ITU. What is the 
> destiny of the other documents, produced by ISOC HQ? Same one. Sent, but not 
> used.
> What I suggest it to change it, to make these documents not only available, 
> but accessible, and ones to be discussed. Is it going to be easy? No, but 
> then, if who said it should be?
>
> In october, I also gave an example how this can be done - with a document, 
> which was prepared in a joint effort between the Bulgarian chapter and the 
> administration, to become an official document, submitted in the proper way - 
> by a government - to the ITU. Unlike the document above, the Bulgarian one 
> could be used as reference (and hopefully, should be). 
> http://isocbg.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/bg-itu/
>
> I know about chapters (but I wouldn't speak for them - they could do it on 
> this list, if they decide to do so), which are also very helpful in keeping 
> the Internet open and free, as it was created, in their respected countries. 
> Sometimes it is not easy, and sometimes it is even dangerous, but they do it.
>
> So, there is a place where the chapters can be much more helpful for the 
> global development of the Internet than ISOC HQ. Because no matter what ISOC 
> HQ says, the documents it prepares present a position, which is - in many 
> cases - not applicable for many national chapters, due to legal framework, 
> cultural difference, etc. My suggestion is to change that - to encourage and 
> support chapters to be more active nationally. For some reasons, ISOC is 
> always humble on that (think about the fact that the maximum it provides as 
> funding for a chapter project per year is equal to roughly a monthly 
> mid-level ISOC salary). And the question is not about money, it is about 
> resources, sometimes just consulting with the chapters, and sometimes - 
> listening to the chapters, and not naming them ;-)
>
> best,
> veni
>
>
> On 12/15/2010 20:51, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
>> Veni,
>> 
>> this "should" is happening, haven't you noticed? we have managed to get 
>> ISOC position papers on issues like ACTA, Network Neutrality, Internet 
>> Governance, and a number of others. Many of them have been finished in 
>> consultation with the chapters and other ISOC stakeholders. Many have 
>> started from a detected need among chapters, be there an explicit request 
>> here or a more silent one from one of us.
>> 
>> Where do we feel the need for more among the chapters? We can't ask for 
>> this in abstract alone.
>> 
>> And, we on our chapters side should also pick up part of the burden, at 
>> least through expressing clear questions that the papers must answer, 
>> providing local or regional context, etc., don't you think?
>> 
>> Many of us do, don't we? Look at the archives of this list. Haven't some of 
>> you used them to point at so that others can read what we say, as 
>> orientation and information?
>> 
>> Yours,
>> 
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Grigori -
>>> that's exactly what ISOC HQ could do - prepare these documents, and 
>>> provide free of any restrictions, including copyright - to the chapters, 
>>> to distribute among governmental representatives in our countries. ISOC HQ 
>>> could start with ideas about the IPv6 working group, the Terms of 
>>> References for the new Internet-related public policy issues working 
>>> group, etc.
>>> 
>>> veni
>>> 
>>> On 12/15/2010 15:21, Grigori Saghyan wrote:
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> fully support Veni's suggestion.
>>>> It is very hard process, in each country ITU representative is a 
>>>> governmental organization.
>>>> They have serious problem - they do not have qualified staff, even more, 
>>>> they do not have anybody, who is able to understand modern challenges.
>>>> In this situation any normal suggestion from local ISOC chapter can be 
>>>> very important for government, they need any  feedback from ISOC.
>>>> Let me ask once more - let us prepare suggestions, recommendations  for 
>>>> local ITU representatives. Without such recommendations ISOC policy is a 
>>>> criticism without suggestions.
>>>> With respect,
>>>> Grigori Saghyan
>>>> ISOC.AM
>