[Chapter-delegates] Application to form a Chapter in Bangalore, India
ANUPAM AGRAWAL
agrawal_anupam at hotmail.com
Sun Oct 11 05:42:38 PDT 2009
Respected ISOC Members,
Greetings!!
This is my take on the issue.
1. The India Kolkata Chapter has its area of work as the state of West
Bengal. It was not a five minute decision to define the working area. A lot
of thought process among the founding members went behind it and primarily
it surfaced that ISOC chapters in every state should be a reality.
And the new Bangalore chapter proposes to have multiple states into its fold
starting from Bangalore to Mumbai. This is not done; so they should be
advised to change their working area to the state of Karnataka.
So one option that ISOC HQ may take that they will promote one chapter per
state of India till all the states are there. There are 30+ of them (States
& Union Territories Included)
This poses an interesting question- How many chapters make a region?
IN case they receive multiple applications from same state then the new
chapters have to be issue based chapters which will work on issues defined
in the charter rather than area.
2. This results in loss for work done for Shiva and Chennai chapter. But
Shiva can be in the board of Bangalore Chapter. This can be mandated by ISOC
HQ. This serves that the good work done in Bangalore continue to be there
and Chennai & Bangalore cross leverage.
So the Question is -- Can a global member be office bearer in two or more
chapters simultaneously?
3. ISOC HQ should promote ISOC Chapter officers exchange program which will
really help to take off the ISOC Leaders program.
4. During the chapter meeting at Delhi last month, Shiva had proposed a
council of chapters in India. I think it was a great idea and we should
start working on it so that we can see one ISOC chapter in each state.
Regards,
Anupam Agrawal
Chair
Kolkata Chapter of Internet Society.
-----Original Message-----
From: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of Veni
Markovski
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 12:22 AM
To: rudi.vansnick at isoc.be; Anne Lord; Khaled KOUBAA; Patrick Vande Walle;
chapter-support at isoc.org; Chapter Delegates
Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Application to form a Chapter in Bangalore,
India
Rudi,
I agree with you.
The facts as they are today (and have been in the past quite a few
years) are showing a missing link in the chain isoc.org - isoc
chapters.
The frustration that many have expressed is still there, regardless of
the efforts of ISOC staff.
I think that a little modesty may serve ISOC.org better. ISOC.org
should not fear the chapters. We, chapters, have quite a good level of
knowledge, which could serve ISOC.org. But if they don't want it, that
will not the chapters look bad. In this dialogue the chapters have
nothing to lose, because the local, national policies are not in the
sphere of interests of ISOC.org.
ISOC-Reston is thinking globally and acting globally. The chapters are
different. But the chapters can exist without ISOC, while I might
argue if ISOC.org would be as strong without the chapters.
It is amazing to read that - despite all the history - the chapters
are still willing to help ISOC.org. But is it amazing that ISOC.org
sees no need of help?
Veni
Best,
Veni
On 10/10/09, Rudi Vansnick <rudi.vansnick at isoc.be> wrote:
> Dear Anne,
> Dear all,
>
> In answer to your question about more details on "Chapters support for
> Chapters" I want to point back to what happened in India frist of all.
> Secondly, as I already proposed several times the last 3 years, I
> herewith propose again the idea of having chapter delegates who are
> (very) active in their chapter and have a good visibility to the
> community, to go abroad helping starting or "sleeping" chapters with
> some hands-on projects and activities. Today, and this for several years
> already, initiatives are always coming top-down while I'm convinced, and
> I'm not alone I suppose, we need more and more bottom-up processes. I
> don't say ISOC staff is not doing good work, but as in many corporations
> often the best productive sites and having the best results are
> affiliates steered by colleagues and not by HQ staff or HQ board
> members. For instance, each chapter has its own way of action as it very
> often react to the local situation and local requirements. Culture being
> a very important aspect, language and politics certainly following very
> closely.
>
> That's why I want to launch the proposal of having a ""Chapters support
> for Chapters" working group first in order to establish the criteria for
> further deployment of a constituency . More details about the mission
> and functions will follow, I need a bit more time to write this down.
>
> In regards the handbook I would like to know from colleague
> chapter-leaders/delegates their perception of :
> - clarity of the wiki on the Chapter handbook;
> - do they know which docs are linked/used in this phase ? and can they
> find them ?
> - what is the added value today to their chapter ?
>
> I'm willing to collaborate but it looks to me very difficult to have a
> view on who and what has already been accomplished as in the wiki it's a
> status quo for months. Perhaps it's my fault and it's up to me to get on
> track ... but however newcomers would probably suffer from the same
problem.
>
> Hope I have not been to critical, still I tried to measure my wording
> and want to keep every possibility open for a constructive talk after
> the years I've been asking for some approval of above mentioned idea and
> offer. For me Seoul will be the place to make for myself also a final
> decision on what I will share and what i'll keep for myself. All depends
> on the spirit of the group ...
>
> Best regards and have a nice weekend,
>
> Rudi Vansnick
> President Internet Society Belgium vzw
> Voorzitter TIK vzw
> Board member EURALO (ALAC - ICANN)
>
> Tel: +32 (0)70 77 39 39
> GSM: +32 (0)475 28 16 32
> www.isoc.be <http://www.isoc.be> - www.vansnick.eu
<http://www.vansnick.eu>
>
>
>
> Anne Lord schreef:
>> hi Rudi,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. We and I am sure
>> others would be very interested to hear details on your idea of a
>> "Chapters support for Chapters" at the forthcoming Chapters and
>> Members meeting in Seoul. It sounds like an excellent topic for
>> discussion and we will add it to the agenda. If you have something
>> more concrete to propose for discussion - even better!
>>
>> In the same vein, sharing the knowledge and expertise in the Chapter
>> network to help each other is something that we have tried to
>> capture in the Chapter Handbook, which is still under development, and
>> will be finished at the end of the year. Many of you have contributed
>> your knowledge and expertise to this and it is still not too late to
>> do so! (so please email <chapter-support at isoc.org> if you you have
>> information that you think others could learn or benefit from - thank
>> you). More broadly, "sharing our success" is a theme that we would
>> like to promote more in next years programmes and in our work.
>>
>> Look forward to hearing more at the Seoul chapters and members meeting,
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Anne
>> --
>>
>>> I also share the concerns of Siva, and agree on the comments of
>>> Franck and Veni. We need a closer band with our colleagues chapter
>>> delegates not by having monthly reporting on activities in the
>>> newsletter but by discussing ongoing problems within chapters by
>>> chapters. I personally think that this could work better than just
>>> having HQ pointing to a chapter when an incident occurs. As I see the
>>> case of India, I can imagine this could easily happen in each
>>> country, even the smallest ones. If membership to ISOC and ISOC
>>> chapters is just a question of numbers and officer seats, I'm afraid
>>> something is wrong in the perception of a chapter.
>>>
>>> At the other hand, creating a chapter because another is not really
>>> active, or doesn't fit in the meanings of some members, there should
>>> be at least a chapter negotiation with eventually another chapter
>>> delegate(s) in order to find a consensus on the continuity of the
>>> initial chapter and, if needed, a close collaboration with old and
>>> new one.
>>>
>>> I would like to propose the set-up of a "Chapters support among
>>> chapters" where only chapter delegates would be active, and this
>>> aside the ISOQ HQ chapter support.
>>> Mission :
>>> - help chapters in difficulty or almost in sleeping mode;
>>> - channel activities which are helpful for chapters at regional or
>>> even local level (sharing ideas);
>>> - build a forum where cross chapter aspects could be explored, by
>>> means of samples but also as a drop point for eventually cross border
>>> activities;
>>>
>>> I would like to bring up this proposal to the Seoul meeting, giving
>>> me the time to work out a draft of the proposal as a project among
>>> chapters.
>>>
>>> All remarks/comments are welcome.
>>>
>>> I'm awaiting your reactions,
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Rudi Vansnick
>>> President Internet Society Belgium vzw
>>> Voorzitter TIK vzw
>>> Board member EURALO (ALAC - ICANN)
>>>
>>> Tel: +32 (0)70 77 39 39
>>> GSM: +32 (0)475 28 16 32
>>> www.isoc.be <http://www.isoc.be> - www.vansnick.eu
>>> <http://www.vansnick.eu>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Veni Markovski schreef:
>>>> I share Franck's notes, and having the Bulgarian chapter in situations
>>>> with ISOC.org in the past, I feel Shiva may need more support from the
>>>> rest of us, while keeping the options for new chapters in India open.
>>>> After all, it is important to at least try to build good relations not
>>>> only between ISOC.org and the chapters but also between the chapters
>>>> in any given country.
>>>>
>>>> Veni
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/8/09, Sabrina Wilmot <wilmot at isoc.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Shiva,
>>>>>
>>>>> We will address your points below in our meeting with you scheduled
>>>>> today and will send the outcome later to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sabrina Wilmot
>>>>> Manager, Chapters & Individual Members
>>>>> Internet Society (ISOC) www.isoc.org
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/8/2009 4:13 AM, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the list of members for the proposed Bangalore chapter the
>>>>>> members'
>>>>>> organizational affiliations are not shown. Only one of the
>>>>>> proposers has
>>>>>> identified himself as from Oracle India Business Center (which now
>>>>>> includes Sun Microsystems?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The proposal for the Bangalore chapter is to cover the
>>>>>> geographical area
>>>>>> "which includes (but is not limited to) Bangalore, Hyderabad, Pune,
>>>>>> Mumbai, Goa and nearby areas" The chennai chapter is chartered to
>>>>>> cover
>>>>>> the geographical regions of Tamilnadu (Chennai), Kerala, Andhra
>>>>>> Pradesh
>>>>>> (Hyderabad) and Karnataka (Bangalore). The proposal for Bangalore
>>>>>> is to
>>>>>> split away 75 out of our 120 members.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are we to become a chapter of 45 members from being a chapter of 120
>>>>>> members? Are we to abandon all work being planned in Bangalore?
>>>>>> Should I
>>>>>> go back to the chapter list to say that those from other regions
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> join the Bangalore chapter? (It wouldn't make sense if those from
>>>>>> Bangalore continue with the Chennai chapter, if the Bangalore
>>>>>> proposal
>>>>>> is approved.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would have been a natural progression if we waited till there
>>>>>> is some
>>>>>> more activity at Bangalore and proposed on our own a chapter in
>>>>>> Bangalore for the convenience of those in Bangalore. Instead this
>>>>>> application is received and being processed as if Bangalore is
>>>>>> completely unrelated to the Chennai chapter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A chapter in Bangalore is a good idea. A chapter is Hyderabad is a
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> idea. Rammohan of Affilias and Rajesh Aggarwal of ISOC Delhi have
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> this and I agree. But ISOC Chennai already includes Bangalore and
>>>>>> Hyderabad and why would anyone show an interest in altering the
>>>>>> constitution of ISOC Chennai? This is not right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Franck Martin <franck at avonsys.com
>>>>>> <mailto:franck at avonsys.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm all for the creation of new chapters in India, but the whole
>>>>>> point of this discussion was that:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) ISOC HQ should direct members first to existing chapters
>>>>>> 2) if ISOC members are willing to create a new chapter, then they
>>>>>> should get as much as possible the blessing of existing near by
>>>>>> chapters especially when the proposed chapter is in the area of a
>>>>>> previously chartered chapter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Franck Martin
>>>>>> http://www.avonsys.com/
>>>>>> twitter: FranckMartin <http://twitter.com/FranckMartin>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Rajesh Aggarwal" <rajeshaggarwal.ias at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:rajeshaggarwal.ias at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> To: "Anne Lord" <lord at isoc.org <mailto:lord at isoc.org>>
>>>>>> Cc: "Chapter Delegates" <chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> <mailto:chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>>, "naresh ajwani"
>>>>>> <naresh.ajwani at sifycorp.com <mailto:naresh.ajwani at sifycorp.com>>,
>>>>>> chapter-support at isoc.org <mailto:chapter-support at isoc.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 3 October, 2009 2:32:58 PM GMT +12:00 Fiji
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Application to form a Chapter in
>>>>>> Bangalore, India
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I fully support Ram Mohan's remarks regarding the need to have a
>>>>>> separate chapter for Bangalore. When we revived Delhi Chapter more
>>>>>> than a year ago, we had detailed discussions on this multiple
>>>>>> Chapters issue from people from many walks of life and different
>>>>>> cities. Consensus was that rather than forming a single All India
>>>>>> ISOC Chapter, we should encourage "different flowers to bloom"-
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is, different Chapters in major Metros at least. I am sure that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> will soon receive Applications from Hyderabad and Mumbai- all
>>>>>> of us
>>>>>> should encourage this rather than trying to throttle new ones from
>>>>>> coming up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rajesh Aggarwal,
>>>>>> (earlier from NIXI, now moved on to new Assignment in Mumbai)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> <mailto:Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org>
>>>>>> http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>>> http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Chapter-delegates mailing list
>>>>> Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
>>>>> http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Anne Lord, Senior Manager <lord at isoc.org>
>> Chapter & Individual Memberships http://www.isoc.org
>> Internet Society (ISOC) "The Internet is for everyone"
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>
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