[Chapter-delegates] ISOC Elections result

Mon May 12 23:58:13 PDT 2008

Hello,

The length of this spirited discussion is answer to Frank Martin's Question
"Do chapters care for ISOC Governance?" It is indeed proof that chapters
care. It doesn't really matter if the response came from a total of less
than 20 people out of 86 chapters multiplied by an average of 3 chapter
officers.

I understand that when ISOC was originally constituted it had no funds, a
small office with a strength of a few staff members and the status quo more
of less continued until ISOC got the .org domain which brought in funds.
ISOC is a body with huge tasks, defined and undefined and this as an
organization is just taking shape. ISOC's Governance is (very objectively
speaking) is perhaps a little slow to evolve and I think, philosophically,
that it is more a reflection of the macro-cosmic trends related to the
governance of internet as a whole. Until recently no one thought the
Internet needs to be "governed" even gently, some even believe that the
Internet ought not to be governed at all. ISOC in its role of internet
governance as part of this macro environment has been a little slow in
bringing in systems, not merely related to chapter formation and management,
but - I sense - related to systems in dealing with other internet
organizations.

An organization such as ISOC would have immense administrative challenges in
its formation and growth - these challenges would essentially pertain to
balancing various interests.

Internet is business, it is an economy measured in trillions, so how
Internet is steered affects a lot of interests - business interests,
government interests and even non-governmental interests. Aside from the
tasks of chapter issues, the larger issue to ensure that ISOC as an
organization takes shape as a balanced organization.

The various interests are NOT illegitimate, if I were a IP space re-seller (
I am not, it is a hypothetical example) I would like to buy IP addresses in
bulk at the lowest possible price and and resell them at the highest
possible price that my customers would like to pay. This part is legitimate.
But if I want to extend my influence within Internet Governance to the
extent of misleading the Governance to allocate me the address spaces almost
at zero cost that I would cleverly resell locally at $40 per month or more,
and would ensure that the Governance does not pay attention to these
practices, then I am exercising undue influence over Internet Governance as
a business and I need to be balanced. If I were a Wi Max company and push
internet policies to leave an environment to maximize Wi Max profits, or a
P2P company pursuing my narrow interests I need to be balanced. If I were a
Government trying to exert an undue influence over the rest of the world
then I need to be balanced.

That is not easy. Not easy at all. The interest groups even in an evolved
democracy are not balanced. Inevitably some interest groups gain a greater
influence and steer the policies to its own advantage. ISOC as an
organization can not possibly be an exception. But in its evolutionary phase
as an organization ISOC needs to identify and pay attention to various
interests that are part of ISOC as members, chapter officers, corporate
members and elected and appointed members.

As Frank Martin has observed Chapters are not a dead weight to carry around,
if any one thought so, it is a psychological 'holier than thou' stand which
needs to be balanced, perhaps by ensuring that chapters have a balanced
representation at the board of trustees. Having said that, we need to take
note of the fact that we have only 86 chapters, not even one to represent
every country, and of the chapters formed, a very few have shown interest in
larger issues, chapter meetings are poorly attended ... and so on. So our
focus needs to be in the consolidation of existing chapters, formation of
and orientation to new chapters, (perhaps by a twining program with another
established chapter) and invigoration of the chapter system by enabling and
assisting chapter programs. In this area we need to pay attention to the
basic infrastructure needs of the chapter and the programs for funding
activities. While all this is being attended to, we could ask for a more
balanced representation as well. Perhaps we can propose an equal number of
trustees nominated by chapters, an equal number by the corporate members,
and a few trustees from government, academia and non-government ? I am
merely thinking aloud.

One measure that can help all this is opportunities for regional and global
chapter meetings, not merely on marratech or Jabber but in an event where we
will all be physically present. So far the model has been to meet during
ICANN or IETF events, shouldn't we have our own ISOC evemt ? At least once a
year ? Perhaps in India to begin with ?

India is to host the Internet Governance Forum which most of the chapter
delegates would like to attend. Perhaps one day prior to IGF we can have an
ISOC conference, or at least a global chapter delegates, corporate
representatives and ISOC trustees and administrators' meeting. If ISOC
administration can ensure participation by facilitating travel and
accommodation at least for one chapter delegate from every chapter, such a
meeting could be organized that would pave way for much greater interaction
and would help chapters get well oriented and enable them to function with
greater vigor.

The sphere project and the AMC are indeed very good signs. Most of the
issues raised in this thread are crucial issues that need to be taken up for
discussion. I hope that these projects would conclude to establish a more
streamlined communication structure for greater collaboration between
chapters, between chapters and ISOC global and between chapters and
Corporate and other members That is soon to happen and when it happens the
issues pertaining to chapter proposals taken up or not taken up the Board of
Trustees will be resolved.

One observation: Chapter representatives or Trustees elected by chapters are
not elected to represent the chapter interests, but they are to be broadly
considered as the chapter's 'contribution' to the ISOC administration to
help ISOC in its policies and programs as a whole.

If this is not understood well, the Trustees and officers that the chapters
elect would go to ISOC's policy meetings with a narrow agenda and that could
lead to a sort of politicization. But as part of this tasks they may have to
ensure the balance which is perhaps where they can keep a note of the
chapter proposals, in a manner that they don't cause a sub group within the
Board of Trustees.

Progress is under way. I believe that there would be many changes for good

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
ISOC India Chennai Chapter
http://www.isocindiachennai.in

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Erkki I. Kolehmainen <eik at iki.fi> wrote:

> Mirror, mirror on the wall... Has it ever occurred to you that the tone of
> the discussion might keep a large number of people out of it and,
> consequently, they might want to participate in a more pragmatic manner
> elsewhere?
>
> N.B. I've resigned from the board of ISOC Finland and thus represent now
> in
> this environment only myself (and will soon drop off from this list).
>
> Erkki I. Kolehmainen
> Tilkankatu 12 A 3, FI-00300 Helsinki, Finland
> Puh. (09) 4368 2643, 0400 825 943; Tel. +358 9 4368 2643, +358 400 825 943
>
> -----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
> Lähettäjä: chapter-delegates-bounces+eik=iki.fi at elists.isoc.org
> [mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces+eik <chapter-delegates-bounces%2Beik>=
> iki.fi at elists.isoc.org] Puolesta
> Hakikur Rahman
> Lähetetty: 13. toukokuuta 2008 5:05
> Vastaanottaja: Veni Markovski; chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> Aihe: Re: [Chapter-delegates] ISOC Elections result
>
>
> I agree with Veni. With my small experience over the years what I
> have found, despite individual chapter's visible (locally)
> activities, due to the inclusiveness and attention (from central, and
> this need a longer thread of discussion) such a large organization
> like ISOC is missing the exact threshold. This is my personal opinion
> and I will be pleased to talk about it. However, I see abrupt blogs
> or thread of discussions while it is a special commitment, otherwise
> this list remains silent.
>
> This could be natural, but, with so many active local chapters and so
> many active members, we should have achieved more a long before!
>
> Kind regards,
> Hakik
>
> At 08:47 AM 5/13/2008, Veni Markovski wrote:
> >At 10:55 AM 5/13/2008  +1200, Franck Martin wrote:
> > >Eduardo, Veni, et al.
> > >
> > >I think the comment is slightly unfair.
> >
> >Only if you have considered them as pointing at you :)
> >which, I guess you did :)
> >
> >Didn't want you, Alejandro ot Patrick feel that way. I have tried - in
> >quite a number of attempts - to move things internally at ISOC, and at
> >the end I gave up. We are doing a lot of things at ISOC-Bulgaria,
> >ISOC.nl, ISOC.pl, and others are working hard, too. Many chapters do
> >what they can, but the general feeling I see is that something is
> >missing in the picture. For me that is the understanding that the
> >chapters are the most vital, most user-oriented parts of ISOC. They are
> >the blood of ISOC. ISOC could not function without them, and they have
> >served ISOC well for obtaining the .org bid some time ago. They didn't
> >do it because they wanted something in return, except attention and
> >inclusiveness.
> >
> >Your achievements, which you've documented - not fully - in your mail
> >are true, and correct. What perhaps is missing is that it should not be
> >your job to alert us about the board meetings, but this should be a
> >procedure, more or less automati, and performed by someone at ISOC HQ,
> >not by a trustee.
> >
> >But there's one thing which is fundamental at every organization that
> >has a board in the USA:
> >
> > >Understand, it does not matter if there is 1, 3 or 6 chapters elect
> > >at the board, the other board members are not the enemy. They just
> > >need to know the chapters better while at the same time understand
> > >that chapters are not a dead weight to carry around. If chapters are
> > >visible to the board by participation, then they will shape things.
> >
> >The number always is important. That's why it is important not only who
> >sits on the board (all current Trustees are fine people), but how many
> >represent the different groups. That's a different discussion from
> >whether the Trustees are good. They are, no doubt about it. But at the
> >same time they represent certain parts of ISOC, which have different
> >interests. One is more interested in the standards and the techincal
> >issues, the other - in the public policy (note: again, it is not about
> >the current Trustees, but about the general principle). You say that
> >chapters should be visible to the Board by participation... but then,
> >how are the organizational members visible to the Board? Do they
> >participate and thus become visible?  You could even turn the question
> >upside down, and ask - if the Board wants to be visible to the
> >chapters, it should participate and start shape things. You may wish to
> >spend some time and find out how many of the Trustees actually
> >participate in chapters, and how many are writing to this list. This
> >could be useful to see why there's some problem in the communications.
> >It is not because of you, or any other Board Trustee today.
> >
> >I know why some of the chapters don't respond to surveys, and don't
> >propose ideas: they've been there, they've done that. It didn't help.
> >Why waste resources again?
> >
> >
> > >The sphere project is a result of the board effort, (including non
> > >chapter-elect board members) to get better interaction between
> > >chapters and ISOC HQ. Groups have been formed, and are starting to
> > >work, but if you look closely, it is more like 5 people from staff or
> > >board and 2 people from chapters. I have already heard complains
> > >about chapters not talking. Very difficult to know what chapters want
> > >when there is no-one to talk to.
> >
> >I could start talking on that topic, but it requires a different
> >thread.
> >
> >best,
> >Veni
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Chapter-delegates mailing list Chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
> >http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/chapter-delegates
>
>
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Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
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