[Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...

Fri Apr 21 10:56:59 PDT 2006

Please be serious. Sadly I find that you have no comprehension of either
where Macedonia is (by your own statement) or of the delicate situation in
the use of the name Macedonia (which has been the cause of major
international disputes). Since you appear to believe that you can have a
fully qualified opinion without being aware of or even wanting to know any
facts, I don't know if any further statements of facts would help.
(Incidentally, there is no such spelling as Deutchland for Germany.)

Erkki I. Kolehmainen
Tilkankatu 12 A 3, FI-00300 Helsinki, Finland
Puh. (09) 4368 2643, 0400 825 943; Tel. +358 9 4368 2643, +358 400 825 943  

-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
Lähettäjä: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] Puolesta Jeffrey Sherman
Lähetetty: 21. huhtikuuta 2006 15:01
Vastaanottaja: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
Aihe: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...

Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is over a country name - and
especially what country name is used in an ISOC chapter name.

After all, what a country is called depends on a number of factors,
including the context and the language.

I mean, if someone asks what country I'm from, I don't usually say, "The
United States of America"... I usually just say "US."

I've seen:

United States
United States of America
US
USA
US of A

and in French

Etats Unis

Germany is "Germany" in English but "Deutchland" in German.  Are either
WRONG?  Someone named "Steven" in English is generally referred to as
"Etienne" in French (sorry, I have no idea how to put in accents).

The chapter of which I'm a member is known as "ISOC Los Angeles" (or "ISOC
Los Angeles Chapter" - I forget which technically).  Los Angeles is
obviously not a country nor is it a state; it is simply a city.  So should
our chapter be known as "ISOC City of Los Angeles"???  Or perhaps "ISOC City
of Los Angeles, County of Los Angeles, State of California, United States of
America"???

Note that ISOC and ISOC chapters are membership organizations that are
separate from governments.  Perhaps in some parts of the world, the local
governments (be it cities, states, or countries) might provide some
sponsorship, but ISOC has never been about the interaction of governments
nor is ISOC considered as representatives of any government (though part of
ISOC's mission might be to INFLUENCE government action).

The name of a chapter is generally chosen to be indicative of the region
where the chapter is based and where most members live and/or work.

Though honestly, most of us in the "US" haven't a clue where Macedonia is
(sadly, most probably couldn't even pick out where France is - or even where
most of our own states are - on a map), I think REGARDLESS of who considers
whatever the country's official name to be, naming the chapter "ISOC
Macedonia" lets the rest of the world know the general location of their
members.

Jeffrey Sherman
Warever Computing, Inc.
530 S. Barrington Ave., Ste. 303
Los Angeles, CA 90049
Toll Free: 800-WAREVER
Local: 310-476-0335
FAX: 310-472-0699

-----Original Message-----
From: chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org
[mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces at elists.isoc.org] On Behalf Of Narelle
Clark
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:19 PM
To: chapter-delegates at elists.isoc.org
Subject: Re: [Chapter-delegates] Welcome again...

> From: borka at e5.ijs.si
> Sent: Thursday, 20 April 2006 7:13 PM
> 
> Would you please pass your discussion to a place
> that is more appropriate  and ready to listen
> to your political standpoints. I doubt that
> ISOC list is the appropriate place.

I do consider it appropriate for Chapters to be aware of international
disputes, and of the ways that the various chapters diplomatically handle
issues regarding:
- country names
- human rights
- trade disputes
Etc (the common ones off the top of my head)

Indeed our ability to discuss relevant issues in a rational, consultative
and basically humane way is essential to our function.

We frequently have meetings between chapters and chapter reprentatives,
governments, business and other dignitaries, and surely it is essential that
we do hear of, for example, the appropriate means of address for these
representatives?

Please accept also, that I do agree that the debate on many
political/diplomatic/intergovernment issues will be inappropriate to this
list, and that we should set aside personal sensitivities wherever possible
in the interest of constructive discussion over flame wars.

I didn't read our Greek (ha ha nearly typed 'Geek') colleague as trying to
push a political point at all, perhaps I'm just naïve. I read it as quite
conciliatory, actually.

> My comment was clarifying the situation
> as initiated and stated   by yourself  with a 
> real fact that U.S government is
> recognizing Republic of Macedonia
> under their constitutional name
> and nothing else. 

Personally, I would have thought the EU's name for a European region  took
precendence over the US' designation any time... [not recalling right now
what the EU calls it]

And while I'm at it, surely the choice of name for a chapter reflects the
culture of its people and is not necessarily tied to that of the nation
within it resides?

I am more concerned that the size of corporations means that the culture
within corporations is now [sadly] dominant over many traditional social
groupings (ie nations). Nations are getting smaller, and corporations
larger. That we don't have chapters from some of these larger "cultural
groupings" is perhaps an oversight...

Regards

Narelle
VP ISOC-AU (Australia)

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