<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="">802.3 coax Ethernet has limits on the lengths of the cables, the delay through repeaters, and the number of repeaters that ensure overall network latency can’t exceed</span><span class=""> 232 bits. When collisions occur, colliding nodes switch from sending data to sending a jam signal that fills the slot - 512 bit times - and then do collision recovery. Late collisions (after the 232 bit time latency) can occur, but did so rarely. They’re treated as errors and left to higher level protocols to sort out. </span>Collisions are detected by a voltage drop on the cable that everyone sees, but if somebody misses it they should see the jam signal. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It’s a pretty reliable system, but collision-free full duplex is better. Full duplex switches permit multiple packets to traverse the switch at the same time as long as they have different destinations, and buffer those with the same destination that overlap. And switches allow operators to assign priorities so that more important bits have a fast lane, just as they did on the IBM Token Ring. <br class=""><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 14, 2019, at 10:15 PM, Gordon Peterson <<a href="mailto:gep2@terabites.com" class="">gep2@terabites.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class=""><br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/14/2019 6:12 PM, Richard Bennett
      wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:793A4A57-0497-42DB-8A29-AB8B9356E153@bennett.com" class="">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
      In principle, Ethernet collisions only occurred at during the
      first few bytes of the frame - the collision window - so it didn’t
      take long to backoff and recover. But the advent of full duplex in
      10BASE-T eliminated collisions. <br class="">
    </blockquote>
    It depends on how long the message is, and how it's routed.  The end
    of the message can be seen earlier in some places than in others,
    depending on propagation delays and different routings.  And some
    collisions may be seen by some network nodes, and not by others.<br class="">
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:793A4A57-0497-42DB-8A29-AB8B9356E153@bennett.com" class="">
      <div class="">We put positive acknowledgment in Wi-Fi because we
        predicted one undetected collision per 100 frames or so, owing
        to the lack of a reliable collision indicator. That appears to
        have been the right choice. <br class="">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    In the case of ARCnet, any given cable is only driven from one end
    at any given time.  So you never get a "collision" of two data
    packets colliding on the same cable coming from different ends.<br class="">
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:793A4A57-0497-42DB-8A29-AB8B9356E153@bennett.com" class="">
      <div class="">
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Jun 14, 2019, at 5:04 PM, Gordon Peterson
              <<a href="mailto:gep2@terabites.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gep2@terabites.com</a>> wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                charset=UTF-8" class="">
              <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class=""><br class="">
                </p>
                <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/14/2019 4:53 PM,
                  Richard Bennett wrote:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:687DADC4-D410-483A-A2DD-88009193329F@bennett.com" class="">
                  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                    charset=UTF-8" class="">
                  The fact that ARCnet was essentially a plug-and-play
                  system for converting 3270 terminal clusters - wire
                  and all - into PC clusters was a huge selling point
                  for departmental computing in the mid ‘80s and beyond.
                  With a Novell file & print server, 3270 emulation
                  and file transfer on your PCs, a shared laser printer
                  and a 3270 LAN gateway you were good to go.</blockquote>
                Sure!  And that you could just add a hub in your
                department, and the wire that used to carry the traffic
                from your (big/expensive) 3270 cluster controller to
                just ONE terminal could now support a BUNCH of
                departmental computers!  As many as you needed!  All
                able to talk together.<br class="">
                <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:687DADC4-D410-483A-A2DD-88009193329F@bennett.com" class="">
                  <div class="">Classic Ethernet’s biggest flaw was its
                    lack of the star topology used for office power,
                    phones, and 3270s. </div>
                </blockquote>
                Basically, ALL classical distribution systems use
                "interconnected stars" topologies.  Water, electricity,
                storm sewers, food and product distribution, (yes)
                telephones, just about everything.  And with linear-bus
                Ethernet, adding a new drop ANYWHERE on the bus
                disrupted messages and electrical signals for the ENTIRE
                bus, until everything re-stabilized.  A map tack or
                paperclip could short out the whole linear bus, and it
                could take a LONG time to figure out where the problem
                was, and get it going again.<br class="">
                <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:687DADC4-D410-483A-A2DD-88009193329F@bennett.com" class="">
                  <div class="">Multi-port transceivers for Cheapernet
                    remedied this, but they were very pricey before
                    10BASE-T.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Metcalfe & crew believed active hubs
                    would be bottlenecks, but that idea never made much
                    sense; the active hub just needs to be as fast as
                    each individual node.</div>
                </blockquote><p class="">It just needs to be as fast as the cable,
                  the total bit rate at the active hub is the same.  And
                  in ARCnet, any given cable is only carrying a single
                  signal in one direction at any given time, and
                  therefore you don't really have electrical signal
                  collisions, and don't have any problems with
                  reflections from taps or the ends of a cable.</p><p class="">More important, with ARCnet the originating
                  RIM knows within about 5-10 microseconds of the end of
                  a transmission whether the transmission was received
                  (fully, correctly and completely) by the destination
                  RIM... before the next packet is prepared and sent. 
                  With Ethernet, you have to wait (maybe a LONG time)
                  until higher-level protocols don't receive an expected
                  result (if any).  Packet collisions (if any) can occur
                  elsewhere in an Ethernet network, and may not be seen
                  by the sender (since the collision elsewhere might
                  occur after the sender has stopped sending).</p><p class="">ARCnet has the receiving node acknowledging
                  (IMMEDIATELY) whether the received packet was
                  received, fully buffered at the receiving end, with
                  correct parity for each byte received, the correct CRC
                  for the entire packet, and the correct number of bytes
                  expected.  And the originating RIM gets this "positive
                  ACK" before it sends another queued packet, or passes
                  the "invitation to transmit" token on to the next node
                  in the polling list.  So if your higher-level protocol
                  is set so that ANY packet can be safely and simply
                  re-transmitted (as The ARC System's protocols allowed)
                  in case of ANY doubt, it makes it really easy to make
                  a VERY robust and error-tolerant network architecture.<br class="">
                </p>
                <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:687DADC4-D410-483A-A2DD-88009193329F@bennett.com" class="">
                  <div class="">RB </div>
                  <div class="">
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">On Jun 14, 2019, at 2:30 PM,
                          Gordon Peterson <<a href="mailto:gep2@terabites.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gep2@terabites.com</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                            On 6/14/2019 3:02 PM, Clem Cole wrote:<br class="">
                          </div>
                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAC20D2ONJvKMPmev3S_+mEV1KGabgo3xXspyTxyYujqUj3g4ig@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                            16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                            text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                            white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                            auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                              <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial, helvetica,
                                  sans-serif;"><br class="">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br class="">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                  Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 3:52 PM Richard
                                  Bennett <<a href="mailto:richard@bennett.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">richard@bennett.com</a>>
                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                  border-left-width: 1px;
                                  border-left-style: solid;
                                  border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                                  padding-left: 1ex;">
                                  <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                    break-word;" class="">The PARC
                                    Ethernet that immediately preceded
                                    Blue Book was 2.94 Mbps, not 3. The
                                    difference is greater than the
                                    bandwidth of ARPANET at the time. I
                                    think an even earlier prototype was
                                    1 Mbps.</div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial,
                                    helvetica, sans-serif;">Right... in
                                    both cases.   One of the guys (Roger
                                    Bates IIRC), even calculated the
                                    number of bit of storage in the PARC
                                    network >>wires<< at one
                                    point.</div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none; float: none; display:
                            inline !important;" class="">Bob Metcalfe's
                            original "Ether"net was a wired version of
                            the University of Hawaii's "Project Aloha",
                            which was a radio-broadcast network...</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAC20D2ONJvKMPmev3S_+mEV1KGabgo3xXspyTxyYujqUj3g4ig@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                            16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                            text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                            white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                            auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                  border-left-width: 1px;
                                  border-left-style: solid;
                                  border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                                  padding-left: 1ex;">
                                  <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                    break-word;" class="">These were
                                    both thin coax systems as thick net
                                    was a Blue Book
                                    designed-by-committee monstrosity
                                    with poor noise modeling.</div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <div class=""><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial,
                                    helvetica, sans-serif;">Amen....</span></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">Bob
                            Metcalfe told me he was a big fan of the
                            linear bus, even with the problems and
                            vulnerabilities I pointed out (including
                            ringing back from the taps, need to
                            terminate ends, ability to take the whole
                            bus down with a pin or paperclip, etc etc). 
                            I told him that an "interconnected stars"
                            topology was a lot better, but he
                            persisted.... sigh...</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">I think
                            it's worth noting that basically nobody
                            still runs thick-wire linear bus Ethernet,
                            and Ethernet didn't really get very
                            successful until they finally adopted the
                            ARCnet-style "interconnected stars" cabling
                            topology based on hubs.<br class="">
                          </p>
                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAC20D2ONJvKMPmev3S_+mEV1KGabgo3xXspyTxyYujqUj3g4ig@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                            16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                            text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                            white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                            auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div class=""><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial,
                                    helvetica, sans-serif;">A question
                                    for you: Was the ARCnet you are
                                    describing from Datapoint, the same
                                    technology as the 75 ohm coax ARCnet
                                    that was popular with Novell
                                    networks in the mid to late 1980s?  <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
                                  </span></div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none; float: none; display:
                            inline !important;" class="">Actually it was
                            93 ohm, RG-62U, BNC connectors, but yes,
                            their "RX-NET" was actually the exact same
                            thing as Datapoint's ARCnet.  They
                            (Datapoint ARC System and Novell RX-NET
                            systems) coexisted nicely on the same ARCnet
                            cable system, too.  ;-)  The wires and
                            cabling and connectors were the same as IBM
                            had used for their 2260 (and 3270 and
                            following) terminals... so most big
                            companies with such networks in place
                            already were cabled for ARCnet.  ;-)  
                            ARCnet is actually very tolerant, I'm told
                            it will even run happily over coat-hanger
                            wire.  ;-)</span><br style="caret-color:
                            rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
                            font-size: 16px; font-style: normal;
                            font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                            normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                            start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
                            none; white-space: normal; word-spacing:
                            0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAC20D2ONJvKMPmev3S_+mEV1KGabgo3xXspyTxyYujqUj3g4ig@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                            16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                            text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                            white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                            auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div class=""><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family: arial,
                                    helvetica, sans-serif;">I remember
                                    it was originally less costly than
                                    the 'Blue Book' ethernet per port
                                    until NS and group came up with
                                    'CheaperNet' (running it across 50
                                    ohm wire thin wire and using BNC
                                    connectors).</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none; float: none; display:
                            inline !important;" class="">The bigger
                            advantages of ARCnet over Ethernet have to
                            do with low-level protocols, fault
                            tolerance, error recovery, electrical
                            robustness, and a lot more.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                          <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAC20D2ONJvKMPmev3S_+mEV1KGabgo3xXspyTxyYujqUj3g4ig@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
                            16px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
                            text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                            white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
                            auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class="">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                  border-left-width: 1px;
                                  border-left-style: solid;
                                  border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                                  padding-left: 1ex;">
                                  <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                    break-word;" class="">
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">RB</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                          <div class="">On Jun 14, 2019,
                                            at 6:43 AM, Noel Chiappa
                                            <<a href="mailto:jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu</a>>
                                            wrote:</div>
                                          <br class="gmail-m_-3227224952991069579Apple-interchange-newline">
                                          <div class="">
                                            <div class="">
                                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">From: Jorge
                                                Amodio<br class="">
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">Thank you so
                                                much for your detailed
                                                response<br class="">
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              Indeed, it was a fantastic
                                              and fascinating glimpse
                                              into a too-little-known<br class="">
                                              corner of computing
                                              history.<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              For those who would like
                                              to know more, in addition
                                              to online sources, I can<br class="">
                                              recommend "Datapoint: The
                                              Lost Story of the Texans
                                              Who Invented the Personal<br class="">
                                              Computer Revolution", by
                                              Lamont Wood. (I'm not sure
                                              if those who were there,<br class="">
                                              like Mr. Peterson, would
                                              consider it accurate, but
                                              it seemed to be to be
                                              quite<br class="">
                                              good.)<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              Typical nugget: the Intel
                                              8008 was not a descendant
                                              of the Intel 4004<br class="">
                                              (although the production
                                              chips did use technology
                                              developed for the 4004),
                                              as<br class="">
                                              commonly thought at one
                                              point; rather, it was
                                              developed for Datapoint<br class="">
                                              (although they wound up
                                              building their own CPU out
                                              of discrete components).<br class="">
                                              The 8008 developed into
                                              the 8080, and then the
                                              8086... and I expect many
                                              of us<br class="">
                                              are reading this on its
                                              descendants.<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">I'll follow up
                                                on a private message so
                                                I don't get the rest of
                                                the list<br class="">
                                                bored with details.<br class="">
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              Bored? Never! :-)<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                                <blockquote type="cite" class="">On Thu, Jun
                                                  13, 2019 at 6:18 PM
                                                  Gordon Peterson <<a href="mailto:gep2@terabites.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">gep2@terabites.com</a>>
                                                  wrote:<br class="">
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                                <blockquote type="cite" class="">(...and, at
                                                  the time, Ethernet....
                                                  which wasn't a
                                                  released product
                                                  yet...<br class="">
                                                  was running at just 2
                                                  megabits<br class="">
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              Minor nit - 3.<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                                <blockquote type="cite" class="">"Oh, Gordon,"
                                                  my colleagues told me.
                                                   "It's a good system,
                                                  but you're<br class="">
                                                  crazy... big
                                                  businesses will never
                                                  give up their
                                                  mainframes and run
                                                  their<br class="">
                                                  processing on networks
                                                  of little computers."<br class="">
                                                  I grinned at them and
                                                  replied, "You just
                                                  WATCH!"   :-)<br class="">
                                                </blockquote>
                                              </blockquote>
                                              <br class="">
                                              I suspect many people on
                                              this list have had similar
                                              experiences! (In my case,<br class="">
                                              circa mid-80s, telling my
                                              now-wife that one day
                                              everyone would have<br class="">
                                              email... :-)<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                              It would be interesting to
                                              collect stories about when
                                              we got glimpses of the<br class="">
                                              future. I am particularly
                                              thinking of Craig's story
                                              about Swedish train<br class="">
                                              timetables; my equivalent
                                              was going home to Bermuda
                                              at one point and seeing<br class="">
                                              URL's painted on
                                              commercial vehicles.<br class="">
                                              <br class="">
                                                   Noel<br class="">
                                              _______<br class="">
                                              internet-history mailing
                                              list<br class="">
                                              <a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">internet-history@postel.org</a><br class="">
                                              <a href="http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history</a><br class="">
                                              Contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:list-owner@postel.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">list-owner@postel.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for assistance.<br class="">
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                      <br class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div style="letter-spacing:
                                          normal; text-align: start;
                                          text-indent: 0px;
                                          text-transform: none;
                                          white-space: normal;
                                          word-spacing: 0px;" class="">
                                          <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                            break-word;" class="">—<br class="">
                                            <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                              break-word;" class="">Richard
                                              Bennett<br class="">
                                              <a href="http://hightechforum.org/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
                                            <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                              break-word;" class="">Ethernet
                                              & Wi-Fi standards
                                              co-creator</div>
                                            <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                              break-word;" class=""><br class="">
                                            </div>
                                            <div style="overflow-wrap:
                                              break-word;" class="">Internet
                                              Policy Consultant</div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <br class="">
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  _______<br class="">
                                  internet-history mailing list<br class="">
                                  <a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">internet-history@postel.org</a><br class="">
                                  <a href="http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history</a><br class="">
                                  Contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:list-owner@postel.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">list-owner@postel.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for
                                  assistance.<br class="">
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div hspace="streak-pt-mark" style="max-height: 1px;" class=""><img alt="" src="https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aY2xlbWNAY2NjLmNvbQ%3D%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=0aea7ff9-bc20-413d-9554-ef47a9795c92" moz-do-not-send="true" style="width:
                                0px; max-height: 0px; overflow: hidden;" class=""><font class="" size="1" color="#ffffff">ᐧ</font></div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
                            font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 16px;
                            font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                            normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
                            normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                            text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
                            word-spacing: 0px;
                            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                            background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                            text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="">
                            <table style="border-top-width: 1px;
                              border-top-style: solid; border-top-color:
                              rgb(211, 212, 222);" class="">
                              <tbody class="">
                                <tr class="">
                                  <td style="width: 55px; padding-top:
                                    13px;" class=""><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="" style="width: 46px;
                                        height: 29px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true" width="46" height="29"></a></td>
                                  <td style="width: 470px; padding-top:
                                    12px; color: rgb(65, 66, 78);
                                    font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial,
                                    Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height:
                                    18px;" class="">Virus-free.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link" target="_blank" style="color:
                                      rgb(68, 83, 234);" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.avast.com</a></td>
                                </tr>
                              </tbody>
                            </table>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
                        start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
                        white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                        -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap:
                        break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                        line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
                        <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                          -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
                          after-white-space;" class="">—<br class="">
                          <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Richard Bennett<br class="">
                            <a href="http://hightechforum.org/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
                          <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards
                            co-creator</div>
                          <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                            -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
                            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Internet Policy Consultant</div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br class="">
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <div class="">
          <div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
            <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
              -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">—<br class="">
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Richard
                Bennett<br class="">
                <a href="http://hightechforum.org/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div>
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet
                & Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div>
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
                space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Internet
                Policy Consultant</div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </div>

</div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">—<br class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Richard Bennett<br class=""><a href="http://hightechforum.org" class="">High Tech Forum</a> Founder</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ethernet & Wi-Fi standards co-creator</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Internet Policy Consultant</div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""></div></div></body></html>