<div dir="ltr">not all data that we might want to preserve needs to be publicly accessible.<div><br></div><div>v</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 6:23 PM Jack Haverty <<a href="mailto:jack@3kitty.org">jack@3kitty.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I don't know much about SOLID, but it appears to be addressing
the problem of handling individuals' personal private data, and
controlling who can access it. What I described was somewhat of
the inverse - making data public, survivable, and accessible to
everyone. But maybe there's overlap in any implementation.
Certainly there are lots of pieces already in place somewhere, as
evidenced by the success of viruses, pirated videos, and the like.<br>
</p>
<p>The Internet has made possible new sorts of social mechanisms.
What I'm imagining is more like applying Internet-style
"crowd-funding" to the problem of a historical archive, where
people contribute cycles and bytes rather than euros and
dollars. <br>
</p>
<p>That wasn't possible pre-Internet, but it is now. Thinking
"outside the box" is a lot easier. The Internet made the box much
bigger....</p>
<p>/Jack<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_-5922535944441398686moz-cite-prefix">On 2/24/19 2:45 PM, Vint Cerf wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">isn't that what SOLID is supposed to do?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>v</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 1:47
PM Jack Haverty <<a href="mailto:jack@3kitty.org" target="_blank">jack@3kitty.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">[Changed
the subject line]<br>
<br>
I read the recent messages on the forum just before going to
sleep, and<br>
then I had a dream....literally.<br>
<br>
There's a whole different perspective on Internet History that
might be<br>
very revealing. Instead of questions like "Who built the
Internet?",<br>
perhaps also ask "Who paid for the Internet?" If historians
"followed<br>
the money" like many other investigators, they might find some<br>
interesting insights. I didn't realize until today that the
IETF is<br>
funded by ... Me! Through my payments for my .org domain,
maybe by now<br>
I've paid for an urn or two of coffee at an IETF meeting.<br>
<br>
But my dream was of how to fund some kind of Internet
repository of<br>
historical materials, not subject to the management whims or
financial<br>
success of an "institution". My dream reminded me that such
mechanisms<br>
already exist, have been running at scale for years, are
self-funded,<br>
and seem essentially impossible to excise even when
governments or<br>
industry giants try to do so.<br>
<br>
My dream is of a Benevolent BotNet (apologies to my alma
mater, BBN). <br>
Instead of hosting and propagating malware and viruses, or
stealing<br>
computer cycle to mine cryptocurrency, the BBN would simply
store,<br>
replicate, and distribute historical materials on demand. No
doubt<br>
Richard's comment on Pirate Bay triggered this part of the
dream.<br>
<br>
Such technology obviously exists, and survives despite serious
efforts<br>
to eradicate it. Where the Internet was coopted for evil,
perhaps the<br>
evil could be coopted for good?<br>
<br>
Maybe even better would be a mechanism that didn't rely on
theft and<br>
subterfuge at all. Perhaps something akin to the SETI
mechanisms, where<br>
people voluntarily donate their computer resources to analyze
radio<br>
signals, by simply downloading a piece of code and allowing it
to run on<br>
their computers.<br>
<br>
So, my dream was that some new software appears, which is
freely<br>
downloaded by thousands or millions of people around the
world, which<br>
uses a few GB of the disk on their machines, and stores
historical<br>
material in a redundant, highly survivable, persistent,
distrubuted<br>
historical warehouse. One, or many, search engines (go
Google!, Bing!,<br>
DuckDuckGo!) would allow people to find material in the
warehouse. <br>
Anyone could contribute material to the historical archive by
simply<br>
placing a copy into the disk area of their machine that
they've shared,<br>
from where it would be automatically distributed and
replicated.<br>
<br>
Perhaps this is one or more apps that can be downloaded. Or
perhaps a<br>
plug in or extension to popular browsers. Or maybe an
addition to<br>
existing mechanisms like BitTorrent. Much of the code already
exists,<br>
as evidenced by the millions of computers unwittingly
participating in a<br>
Botnet, or willingly running code like SETI.<br>
<br>
Dave's offer of disk space is just the start. I suspect many
people<br>
would contribute some unused chunk of their computers and
network<br>
capacity. I have a few Terabytes on my NAS that are
empty...you<br>
probably do too. With enough participants, the BBN becomes<br>
self-suficient even as people come and go.<br>
<br>
All it would seem to take is for someone to sit down and write
the<br>
code....in the classic Internet spirit of Rough Consensus and
Running Code.<br>
<br>
Dave....?<br>
<br>
/Jack Haverty<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/24/19 7:42 AM, Dave Taht wrote:<br>
> Joe Touch <<a href="mailto:touch@strayalpha.com" target="_blank">touch@strayalpha.com</a>>
writes:<br>
><br>
>> On Feb 23, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Jack Haverty <<a href="mailto:jack@3kitty.org" target="_blank">jack@3kitty.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> But "<a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" target="_blank">internet-history@postel.org</a>",
and others like it, even RFC<br>
>> repositories, likely exist at the whim of their
sponsor. <br>
>><br>
>> Indeed - even assuming volunteers run them -
they’re’s still the issue<br>
>> of hosting and net access.<br>
>><br>
>> I have old repositories (end2end-interest, for one)
that even the ISOC<br>
>> has declined to host (even though the E2E-RG
originated there).<br>
>><br>
>> Then again, if you want to see the worst of “free
riders”, go attend<br>
>> an IETF. Companies send armies there for free
training and free<br>
>> consulting. <br>
>><br>
>> PS - speaking as list admin, if anyone wants to offer
a place to host<br>
>> this list more reliably and archivally, please do let
me know (contact<br>
>> me directly off-list).<br>
> My email list server currently lives on linode in the
cloud. The cost is<br>
> $5/month for 25GB of SSD storage. ( <a href="https://www.linode.com/pricing" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linode.com/pricing</a><br>
> ). Has IPv6 and IPv4. It's paid for via a patreon
donation.<br>
><br>
> It's not like I'm using much of that box - or the
bandwidth available -<br>
> how big are these archives?<br>
><br>
> I wouldn't mind sharing that existing list server, but I
long ago<br>
> switched to violating whatever RFC it was that said
starttls was a<br>
> "should" - to *mandate* starttls only - which cuts down
on spam (and<br>
> sigh, about 13% of my measured potential correspondents,
still). The<br>
> biggest administrative cost I'd had was dealing with
spam.<br>
><br>
> If that's not an acceptable policy for these
lists/archives, well, go<br>
> burn the 5 bucks/mo on yer own.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> Joe<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______<br>
>> internet-history mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" target="_blank">internet-history@postel.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history</a><br>
>> Contact <a href="mailto:list-owner@postel.org" target="_blank">list-owner@postel.org</a>
for assistance.<br>
_______<br>
internet-history mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" target="_blank">internet-history@postel.org</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.postel.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history</a><br>
Contact <a href="mailto:list-owner@postel.org" target="_blank">list-owner@postel.org</a>
for assistance.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-5922535944441398686gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">New postal address:
<div>Google<br>
<div>1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor</div>
<div>Reston, VA 20190</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">New postal address:<div>Google<br><div>1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor</div><div>Reston, VA 20190</div></div></div></div>