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<p>I vaguely remember being at a meeting sometime in the mid-80s.
Some government/military/contractor site, but can't remember
where. It was a large (15 or 20) group of people, none of whom I
knew. They were using lots of jargon I didn't recognize too. I
had come in a bit late.<br>
</p>
<p>One of the terms that cropped up was "New Dets Per Second". I
knew what bits/second were, and kilobits/sec., and similar
networky things, but had never heard "New Dets Per Second".</p>
<p>After a while, the meaning became clear from context.... It was
actually "NuDets/Second", shorthand for "Nuclear Detonations Per
Second".</p>
<p>I then finally realized I was in the wrong meeting.<br>
</p>
<p>So someone was thinking about such things...</p>
<p>/Jack<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/19 6:10 PM, Barbara Denny
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1419881554.1321723.1550542202878@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydpbf5b86efyahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>I don't remember Radia Perlman's ideas for supporting
network partitioning and coalescing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SRI did have a project where we did a few experiments at
SAC demonstrating a solution to this problem using the ARPAnet
and Packet Radio networks. We did go out to Offutt for
demonstrations using their aircraft. This was in the mid
80's. I also think I may have given a demonstration of the
protocols during IETF 4 at SRI to a few people.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe Zaw-Sing Su and Jim Mathis worked on the design
of the Reconstitution Protocols. I took part in the
development and demonstration . Mark Lewis also participated
in the project as a developer and maybe more since I was not
part of the project initially. I am pretty sure there was a
paper at MILCOM about this work. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe there was also a RFP in this same time frame
asking for solutions to islands of connectivity that may
happen as a result of military conflict. I worked on the SRI
proposal at least twice if my memory is correct. (I think
there may have been a protest to the original award so that is
why the second proposal.) I don't remember if this project was
ever awarded to anyone.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>barbara</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="ydpbf5b86efyahoo_quoted_1155157744"
class="ydpbf5b86efyahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Saturday, February 16, 2019, 9:26:54 AM PST,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internet-history-request@postel.org">internet-history-request@postel.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:internet-history-request@postel.org"><internet-history-request@postel.org></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
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<div><br>
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">Send internet-history mailing list
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<div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject
line so it is more specific<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of internet-history
digest..."<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> 1. Re: When did "32" bits for IP register
as "not enough"?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> (Craig Partridge)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> 2. Re: Fwd: Re: When the words Internet
was design to survive a<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> nuclear war appeared for the first
time? (John Day)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 09:35:10 -0700<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: Craig Partridge <<a
href="mailto:craig@tereschau.net" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">craig@tereschau.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [ih] When did "32" bits for IP
register as "not enough"?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: Bob Hinden <<a
href="mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bob.hinden@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Cc: internet history <<a
href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">internet-history@postel.org</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<CAHQj4Cc_D5Ee4Oj1VTNKCoY3t4iAvLoY1mHRxOf=<a
href="mailto:Smwxk7krjQ@mail.gmail.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Smwxk7krjQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Bob:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">You are right about the implementations
being in parallel for a while. I'm<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">going to get the dates slightly wrong but
Bill's code came out in 4.1c<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">(1982?) and BBN kept maintaining its
implementation (Dennis Rockwell and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">then Bob Walsh) until c. 1985. Indeed, as
I recall there was a debate c.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">1985 at DARPA about whether to force
Berkeley to use the BBN code (which<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">had been modified to use the sockets API,
which everyone agreed was better<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- I had a small part in the port to
sockets).<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I believe that when the TCP/IP project
transitioned to me (c. 1987?), I<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">stopped effort on the BBN TCP/IP. I think
we had to maintain it a bit as<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">we'd licensed it to a workstation vendor
(Apollo????). Karen Lam and David<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Waitzman switched to the BSD TCP/IP and we
did things like help Steve<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Deering implement multicast and such.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks!<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Craig<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 9:24 AM Bob Hinden
<<a href="mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bob.hinden@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Craig,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > On Feb 15, 2019, at 12:38 PM,
Craig Partridge <<a href="mailto:craig@tereschau.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">craig@tereschau.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Important historical nit. I was
the manager of the BBN UNIX TCP/IP<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> effort after Rob Gurwitz left (I think
Rob inherited it from Jack Haverty,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> but not sure). The BSD stack with
sockets *was not written by BBN*. It<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> was written by Bill Joy at Berkeley --
using the earlier BBN 4BSD code as a<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> reference. Entirely new code, but
originally bug-for-bug compatible<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> (indeed, years later, when a bug was
found in the BSD TCP, the BSD folks<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> stood up and said "that's a bug from
BBN?)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> My memory is that they both were
maintained in parallel for several<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> years. Also, Bill Joy's TCP stack
also had the ?trailers? feature where<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the headers were at the end of the
packet. Documented in RFC893 (<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <a
href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc893"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc893</a>).
Probably not so good for packet<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> switching, but better performance on
some host implementations. That faded<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> away at some point.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Bob<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">*****<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Craig Partridge's email account for
professional society activities and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">mailing lists.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message: 2<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 12:18:27 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">From: John Day <<a
href="mailto:jeanjour@comcast.net" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jeanjour@comcast.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [ih] Fwd: Re: When the words
Internet was design to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> survive a nuclear war appeared for the
first time?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">To: Steve Crocker <<a
href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">steve@shinkuro.com</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Cc: <a
href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">internet-history@postel.org</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:32E6E6ED-2C77-47A4-B374-EAB335638B69@comcast.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">32E6E6ED-2C77-47A4-B374-EAB335638B69@comcast.net</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">In the FWIW category, I remember that
network partitions (between the East and West Coasts)
occurred, not often but often enough to be noticeable,
until the 3rd cross-country line went in. Then they were
pretty much a rarity, if they occurred at all. Illinois
was one of the jumping off points between East and West,
so perhaps we just noticed them more.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">John<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On Feb 16, 2019, at 11:25, Steve
Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">steve@shinkuro.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> My brother forwarded the appended
thread. It reminded me that I had previously been
unsuccessful at joining this list, but I am now on the
list.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Over the years I have heard many times
from many different people and also seen in print the
idea that the Arpanet was motivated and built for
nuclear survivability. Moreover, Steve Lukasik, the
director of (D)ARPA for several of the critical years,
included this as one of his reasons for signing the
checks for the Arpanet.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I think it will be helpful to make a
couple of distinctions regarding network survivability.
Let me offer two dimensions and at least two levels of
disruption for each.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Equipment outage: When a link or a
router becomes unusable, it's necessary to route around
the loss. It makes a big difference if only a few links
or routers are down versus a significant fraction are
down. In normal circumstances, it is expected some
lines and some routers will be out of service from time
to time. In contrast, if there is an attack, the
outages might be substantial and perhaps purposefully
coordinated.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Traffic level: In normal operation,
the total traffic is within the capacity of the
network. In extraordinary times, the traffic level
surges beyond the capacity of the system. Surges happen
for various reasons. There might be a very popular web
site, e.g. the Victoria Secrets incident, or a DDoS
attack.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Arguably the Arpanet design addressed
survivability for the case when a small number of links
or routers were out and traffic levels were normal.
Alex colorfully describes Frank Heart's concerns for the
risks to individual IMPs placed in the very risky
environments of universities.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> The Arpanet design did not address the
issue of large scale outages nor did it include
strategies for dealing with overload. In contrast, a
serious design to address post-nuclear operation would
have had to address the combination of substantial loss
of equipment and a huge spike in urgent traffic.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> In the conversations I've had with
Lukasik on this matter, he says he had in mind the
technology could lead to designs that would have that
level of survivability, and that it was helpful to
include this in defending the funding for the network.
And, as Vint says, subsequent projects explored
reconstitution in the event of certain kinds of
disconnections. However, I believe the level of outages
explored in those projects were well below the levels
that would have occurred in a large scale nuclear
confrontation.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> In 2017, I ran this question past
Larry Roberts. His short reply was he would have had to
connect each IMP to four others instead of only two or
three others.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Steve<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> -------- Forwarded Message --------<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Subject: Re: [ih] When the
words Internet was design to survive a <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> nuclear war appeared for the first
time?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 12:30:36 -0500<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> From: Vint Cerf <<a
href="mailto:vint@google.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vint@google.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:vint@google.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vint@google.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> To: Alex McKenzie <<a
href="mailto:aamsendonly396@gmail.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aamsendonly396@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:aamsendonly396@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aamsendonly396@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> CC: internet history <<a
href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">internet-history@postel.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">internet-history@postel.org</a>>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Alex is essentially correct. Paul
Baran's work WAS aimed at post-nuclear <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> survival but he never got to try his
ideas out as they<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> were rejected as unimplementable or
uninteresting by a circuit-switching <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> oriented Defense Communications
Agency.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Larry Roberts was clear that the
ARPANET was intended to support <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> resource sharing.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> By the time Bob Kahn and I started
working on Internet with its focus on <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> command/control, the issue of
survivability<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> was back on the table. The
multi-network design contemplated multiple <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> networks operated by distinct entities<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> (in the DoD perspective it was
multiple countries or aggregates like <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> NATO) and resilience was important. I
went<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> so far as to commission a test in
which we flew packet radios in <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Strategic Air Command aircraft,
artificially "broke"<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the ARPANET up into fragments and
re-integrated them through ground to <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> air packet radio connectivity. I was<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> particularly worried about the
partitioning of a constituent network <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> which would cause great confusion for
the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> routing algorithm (a source gateway
might know know to which "half" of <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the fragmented network a packet should<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> be sent. My hazy recollection is that
Radia Perlman came up with a way <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> to solve that problem that involved<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> creating new autonomous systems out of
each "piece" and re-enabling <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> routing algorithms.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> vint<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 12:18 PM Alex
McKenzie <<a href="mailto:aamsendonly396@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aamsendonly396@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:aamsendonly396@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aamsendonly396@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <mailto:<a
href="mailto:aamsendonly396@gmail.com" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aamsendonly396@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:aamsendonly396@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aamsendonly396@gmail.com</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Miles,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> I believe the emphasis on
survivability came from Frank Heart.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Building the early ARPAnet was a
very risky project, in the sense<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> that there was a tight deadline,
it would be easy to see if it<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> worked or not, and most people
didn't believe it would work.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Frank's reputation was very much
on the line. The ruggedized IMP<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> cabinet was part of his emphasis
on controlling everything the team<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> could control, to minimize risk.
But the particular risks the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ruggedized cabinet was intended
to protect against were:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> - careless site personnel, who
cared about their own computers but<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> might be expected to stick the
IMP in a storage closet where<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> maintenance workers would bump
it, and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> - graduate students who might be
inclined to study it, perhaps with<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> destructive results. (Lest this
seem outlandish, the TIP in Hawaii<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> was a sore spot of unreliability
when I was running the NCC -<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> turned out a graduate student was
crashing it every day by taping<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> into its power supply which was
just right for his project. The TIP<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> was NOT in a ruggedized box.)<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> The group was not trying to
protect against EMP.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> More generally, if the ARPAnet
had been designed to survive a<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> nuclear attack it would have been
necessary to insure that the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> IMP-to_IMP circuits did not go
through the small number of Telco<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> offices which made up the Telco
backbone. No effort was made to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> influence the provisioning of
these circuits, and it can be presumed<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> that loss of only a few major
cities would have resulted in most of<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> the leased lines disappearing.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Cheers,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Alex<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 10:48 AM
Miles Fidelman<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <<a
href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Bernie,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On 2/14/19 9:28 AM, Bernie
Cosell wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > On February 14, 2019
09:13:42 Alejandro Acosta<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > <<a
href="mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com</a>>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > <mailto:<a
href="mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a
href="mailto:alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alejandroacostaalamo@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> Today I was reading
some news about Internet and in one of<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> them I<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> found the phrase (that
all of you have listened before): <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> "Internet<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> (ARPANET) was intended
to survive a nuclear war", however, as<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> far as I<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> know, this is kind of
a myth, right?, ARPANET was intended as<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> a research<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> >> network and the "war"
part if very far away from the thuth.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > my take on that is that
there were two lines of thought<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > leading up to the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > ARPAnet. very very
roughly: one was paul baran's, who was<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > thinking<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > about how the military
command and control might be able to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > continue functioning in
the event of an attack, and JCR<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > Licklider, who was
thinking<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > about how wide-spread
researchers could share resources, ideas<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > and results<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > to better collaborate.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > when the ARPAnet got
funded by the DoD, Baran's story was the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > easier to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > understand to the average
person, raather than the more<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > diaphanous idea<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > of researcher
collaboration. so Baran's take kinda caught the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > public<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > imagination, but the
reality for those of us working on it was<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > the it was<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> > {somehow :o)} to be a
research tool.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> ><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> You were involved a lot
earlier than I was. Perhaps you could<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> comment on how much folks
thought about fault-tolerance in the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> early days. It's always
struck me that things like<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> continuity-of-operations, in
the face of node & link outages,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> and
no-single-point-of-failure, were baked in from the<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> beginning. You know - all the
stuff that would allow the net to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> survive everything from
backhoes to natural disasters, and<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> coincidentally, nuclear war.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> On the physical side, the
early IMPs were pretty rugged boxes<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> (not so much C/30s and
such). Were any of the IMPs built to<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> withstand EMP?<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Miles<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> -- In theory, there is
no difference between theory and <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> practice.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> In practice, there is. ....
Yogi Berra<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> _______<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> internet-history mailing list<br>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> _______<br>
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<div dir="ltr">> assistance.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> -- <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> New postal address:<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Google<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> 1875 Explorer Street, 10th Floor<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Reston, VA 20190<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> -- <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Dave Crocker<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> Brandenburg InternetWorking<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> bbiw.net <<a
href="http://bbiw.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://bbiw.net/</a>><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">> <Attached.txt>_______<br>
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<div dir="ltr">End of internet-history Digest, Vol 126,
Issue 24<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">*************************************************<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______
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