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Wasn't</title></head><body>
<div>No, it was not the OSI process. All consensus processes
have these properties. They become more manifest with size and
with time. It is the nature of the beast. However, I would
offer that the particular organization of the IETF which lacks certain
fundamental feedback mechanisms has more problems than those with
those feedback mechanisms. There is a reasonable treatment of
this in Federalist 10.</div>
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<div>As to IPv6 turning out different, ahh soon they forget. The
ground rules were set so that the answer had to be anything but CLNP.
CLNP fixed a problem we had seen in the ARPANET. I remember
sitting in those meetings incredulous that a problem we had first seen
20 year before (now 40) was not being fixed. But we don't need
to go there.</div>
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<div>At 10:16 AM +0200 7/31/13, Scott Brim wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Exactly why I mentioned it. TCP/IP
won, but so did the OSI process.<br>
<br>
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013, Dave Crocker wrote:<br>
<blockquote>On 7/31/2013 9:10 AM, Scott Brim wrote:<br>
<blockquote><br>
Is this where we segue to talking about the state of the
IETF?<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br>
<br>
Well, umm...<br>
<br>
In the early 1980s, there was a hot debate going on between DOS and
Unix. I went and did other things for a few years; when I
returned, I discovered that Unix had won and it was called DOS.
DOS continued to dominate the market but all of its new features
were taken from Unix.<br>
<br>
Too often, the same template applies for the IETF. That is, what
I often see is that in many cases, OSI has won, and it is called
IETF.<br>
<br>
Too often, work attempts the union of the feature lists, rather than
the intersection, and therefore takes an overly long time to complete,
produces massively complex specifications, and is not immediately
useful.<br>
<br>
It is now not that unusual to hear -- such as yesterday morning --
someone (whose experience ought to have taught them better) that it is
essential to do everything all at once, for example to make sure that
all of the pieces work together. This is in marked
contrast with essentially all of the major IETF successes over the
last 25+ years.<br>
<br>
Aren't you glad you asked?<br>
<br>
d/<br>
<br>
--<br>
Dave Crocker<br>
Brandenburg InternetWorking<br>
<a href="http://bbiw.net">bbiw.net</a></blockquote>
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