<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div>clears up some of the uncertainties</div><div><br></div><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Vint Cerf</div><div>Google</div><div>1818 Library Street, Suite 400</div><div>Reston, VA 20190</div><div>202-370-5637</div><div><a href="mailto:vint@google.com">vint@google.com</a></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span> </div><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">"roger scantlebury" <<a href="mailto:roger.scantlebury@ntlworld.com">roger.scantlebury@ntlworld.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">March 22, 2009 2:47:08 PM EDT</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica">"'Vint Cerf'" <<a href="mailto:vint@google.com">vint@google.com</a>></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" color="#000000" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Helvetica"><b>RE: [ih] Baran and arbitrary reliability from arbitrarily unreliable components</b></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hi Vint<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">We referenced Baran’s paper in our 1967 Gatlinburg ACM paper.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span> </span>You will find it in the References.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span> </span>Therefore I am sure that we introduced Baran’s work to Larry (and hence the BBN guys).<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">We were unaware of Baran’s work when we started our own design work in 1965, but were given a copy of his paper by one of our colleagues in the UK Ministry of Defense (in 1966) while we were writing the 1967 paper.<span> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Clearly Donald and Paul Baran had independently come to a similar idea – albeit for different purposes – Paul for a survivable voice/telex network, ours for a high-speed computer network.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">I hope this explains the time-line….<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Best Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Roger<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">-----Original Message-----<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Vint Cerf [<a href="mailto:vint@google.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:vint@google.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>19 March 2009 09:01<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Roger Scantlebury<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Fwd: [ih] Baran and arbitrary reliability from arbitrarily unreliable components</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Roger,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Is it your understanding that Donald and the NPL team were unaware of the Baran work at RAND during the period of development of the network at NPL? I don't think this has to do with anyone fighting over paternity. It is just a question about when the various "packet" efforts became aware of each other.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">For example, your interaction with Larry Roberts in 1967 is the key link that drew ARPA and NPL groups into mutual awareness I think.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">I had once thought that you might have drawn Roberts' attention to Baran's work but I suppose not, if you were unaware of it in 1967. In fact, it would be of interest to know when and how you (or Donald) might have learned of it? <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">thanks, hope this finds you well!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">v<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; "><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; "><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px; "><div apple-content-edited="true"><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; "><br>Vint Cerf<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; ">Google<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; ">1818 Library Street, Suite 400<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; ">Reston, VA 20190<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; ">202-370-5637<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; "><a href="mailto:vint@google.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">vint@google.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; "></span><br><br><br></font><o:p></o:p></div></div></span><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Begin forwarded message:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-weight: bold; ">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></b><font size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; "><a href="mailto:jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(Noel Chiappa)</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-weight: bold; ">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></b><font size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; ">March 18, 2009 6:51:07 PM EDT</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-weight: bold; ">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></b><font size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; "><a href="mailto:internet-history@postel.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">internet-history@postel.org</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-weight: bold; ">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></b><font size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; "><a href="mailto:jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="1" color="black" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-weight: bold; ">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></b><b><font size="1" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica; font-weight: bold; ">Re: [ih] Baran and arbitrary reliability from arbitrarily unreliable components</span></font></b><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="min-height: 14px; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">From: John Day <<a href="mailto:jeanjour@comcast.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jeanjour@comcast.net</a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Davies not having access to RAND reports<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><br>Oh, one minor point for the record on this.<br><br>A summary of Baran's work was published in:<br><br> Paul Baran, "On Distributed Communications Networks", ('IEEE Transactions on<br> Communications Systems', March 1964)<br><br>Note the date - in Baran's oral history interview he notes (pp. 40-41) that<br>one work, a book (by Donald Davies, from context) had a typo and listed the<br>paper as being in 1969, an error that has since been widely copied (with the<br>obvious erroneous conclusions drawn) - to Baran's amusement! ("It's fun to<br>see many people refer to that paper with the 1969 date year after year in<br>footnotes and in bibliographies. It's obvious that they haven't read the<br>paper, only the reference to it.")<br><br>I don't know how widespread ToCS was back then, but to reply to your<br>observation above, it wasn't necessary to have had access to Baran's reports<br>to find out about his work back in '64 in pretty fair detail (I have read the<br>ToCS paper, and it covers the main points).<br><br>Even more problematic, an abstract of Baran's '64 IEEE ToCS paper had been<br>published in IEEE Spectrum in August '64. I seem to recall doing some<br>research to find out the circulation figures for that journal back then, and<br>I apparently discovered (no notes as to where I found this) that it was about<br>160,000 in those days! I haven't seen that abstract though, to know how<br>detailed it was.<br><br><br>Mind, I have no reason to doubt Davies' memory that he did not recall seeing<br>anything about Baran's work - but as I pointed out before, it's almost<br>certainly impossible to prove, at this remove, that _some inkling_ of it did<br>not reach him somehow, and he simply didn't remember.<br><br>Still, Baran's ideas had been circulated quite openly and widely through<br>professional journals years before.<br><br><span class="apple-tab-span"><span> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>Noel<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div></span></span></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>