<div dir="auto">No disrespect intended but it seems to be pretty obvious don't see the reason to look beyond the obvious..however we are always willing to communicate with others<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Doug</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 13:00 Christopher Locke <<a href="mailto:locke@isocfoundation.org">locke@isocfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Yep that’s great - would still love to meet and chat about what happened so I can learn from it.<span></span><span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Best, Chris </div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="m_-4807281368046950387ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<b><span style="color:black">Chris Locke,</span></b><span style="color:black"> EVP & MD of Internet Society Foundation</span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="font-size:inherit;color:black"><a href="mailto:locke@isocfoundation.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">locke@isocfoundation.org</a> | Time zone: UTC -0 | Pronouns: he/him/his</span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="color:black"><img id="m_-4807281368046950387id-signature-image-D3BE3FBB-A39D-4D43-8BEA-5AE27D781BD8" src="cid:signature-image-D3BE3FBB-A39D-4D43-8BEA-5AE27D781BD8" alt="signatureImage" width="288" height="70"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"></span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><u><span style="color:rgb(24,50,71)"><a href="https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ" title="https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ" style="color:purple" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Donate
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-4807281368046950387divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> b1harlem nyc <<a href="mailto:smartnet.nyc@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">smartnet.nyc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 13, 2024 6:58:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Christopher Locke <<a href="mailto:locke@isocfoundation.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">locke@isocfoundation.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Winthrop Yu <<a href="mailto:w.yu@gmx.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">w.yu@gmx.net</a>>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17 September 2024</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Full disclosure we received a beyond the net grant pre pandemic so we do know how to fill out a application it says here
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thank you</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Doug Frazier </div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Oct 13, 2024, 12:54 Christopher Locke <<a href="mailto:locke@isocfoundation.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">locke@isocfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">OK - I’ll be in NYC next month. Let me speak to you and I’ll share info and talk you through the application process<span> and how we can improve the application and help everyone understand why it was originally denied - and also talk about
the process of notification when an application is denied and see what we can do to improve this. I’m also happy to jump on a call earlier but very happy to meet the NYC chapter in person to discuss this.<span></span><span></span></span><span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span>Best, Chris </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="m_-4807281368046950387x_m_2483082316828691289ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<b><span style="color:black">Chris Locke,</span></b><span style="color:black"> EVP & MD of Internet Society Foundation</span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="font-size:inherit;color:black"><a href="mailto:locke@isocfoundation.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">locke@isocfoundation.org</a> | Time zone: UTC -0 | Pronouns: he/him/his</span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="color:black"><img id="m_-4807281368046950387x_m_2483082316828691289id-signature-image-D3BE3FBB-A39D-4D43-8BEA-5AE27D781BD8" src="cid:signature-image-D3BE3FBB-A39D-4D43-8BEA-5AE27D781BD8" alt="signatureImage" width="288" height="70"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"></span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="text-decoration:none;margin:0cm;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><u><span style="color:rgb(24,50,71)"><a href="https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ" title="https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" style="color:purple" target="_blank">Donate today.</a></span></u><span style="color:black"> Help
protect the Internet for everyone.</span></p>
</div>
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-4807281368046950387x_m_2483082316828691289divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>>
on behalf of b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 13, 2024 6:40:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Winthrop Yu <<a href="mailto:w.yu@gmx.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">w.yu@gmx.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17 September 2024</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Just to set the record straight the nyc chapter received 2 beyond the net rejections over this year
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The rejection announcement was exactly like the first except one part read ...."we cannot tell you why we denied your application" and the the rest is the same....
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Our application to expand the live streaming service and our proposal to also provide access to chapter members through our Resident Public Safety Teaching Network in partnership with the New York City Housing Authority residents set up by
our chapter and operated by the residents themselves and funded by the residents ...not only were they the residents deemed unworthy of ISOC board of directors exclusive</div>
<div dir="auto">Service Foundations non volunteer controlled grant.(nothing new for our community)
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We were treated to a (2nd)written letter were we were told specifically and I must admit incredulous WHY our application was DISQUALIFIED (this before getting our we cannot tell you why letter)</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The ISOC board of directors non volunteer Service Foundations (we tell you why) rejection letter explained they our group was being denied, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> because as board members of the nyc chapter of isoc (we) have a conflict of interest because we work (volunteer) with the 501c not for profit that runs the teaching network a not for profit operated by the residents themselves! </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">And which I and another nyc chapter board member serve on that not for profits board! as volunteers (<a href="http://thesmartci.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">thesmartci.org</a>) and therfore because of same, rejection of our beyond
the net application resulted..But wait there's more</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Our efforts was also rewarded with the dreaded double DISQUALIFICATION according to the Isoc board of directors service organization non volunteers rejection letters</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The nyc chapter application for (beyond the net funds)<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Was further DISQUALIFIED for proposing to spend more than 20 per cent of the requested amount on the residents of the New York City Housing Authority themselves you know the poorest among us !!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I can not guess why the ISOC board of directors would not want to see those community folks get anything out of the enormous sum allocated to volunteers by the largess of the Isoc board of directors through their exclusive Service provider and
non volunteers at the Foundation.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Insert lyrics from famous rap song.."you though I was a donut you tried to glaze </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Item last:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">miss me with the fancy talking new guy wow there is money to hire medical doctor ?? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Can not make this it up</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Doug Frazier </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Proud member and volunteer of </div>
<div dir="auto">the nyc chapter </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 06:04 Winthrop Yu via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div>
<p>+1 Joel, Doug, Christian, Hank, Eduardo, and most especially to Olivier. <br>
</p>
<p>Others have already pointed-out that $64,000/year is a very reasonable outlay for the scope and quality of the work that Joly was doing. What would be the cost of an entire Comms team doing that work, or if this work were to be outsourced to yet another
tech company (like SalesForce.com for a "product" like Fonteva)?</p>
<p>But we are told that we can still have the work done -- simply apply for a BTN grant. Well, now we know that ISOC-NY did apply for a one-time grant to archive and save about 800 livestream videos. The result? ISOC Foundation rejected this
<b>tiny, minuscule</b> Beyond the Net application, the reason given by ISOC Foundation was: "<i>the total number of requests we receive exceed the amount of funding we have available and we must select projects most closely aligned to the goals of our Foundation</i>".
A paltry $1K -- not aligned with goals? <br>
</p>
<p>That, ladies and gents, says a lot about the state ISOC (HQ) is in nowadays. <br>
</p>
<p>WYn<br>
PH<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/10/2024 7:56 PM, Joel Okomoli via Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Thanks Frazier! and +1,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This attitude is spread across the various programs run by ISOC! We have seen fellows and travel fellowships being awarded to very strange fellows who do not even understand the Mission and Vision of ISOC! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The outcome is that the said fellows ride on such funds then quickly disappear without trace! Occasionally they pop up - as staff and then you begin to see the connection. This is a small world and it looks like our former CEO entrenched the culture. I
believe any openings in this ecosystem should be given to the active volunteers! That is what will grow The Internet Society. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My observation, I could be wrong. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Joel Okomoli </div>
<div>ISOC Kenya Chapter. <br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 1:37 PM b1harlem nyc via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">That's exactly what I was thinking as well.. we have a situation where the non volunteers are dictating what is being done with allocation of resources. And just refusing to acknowledge they are wrong on this and maybe being a penny wise and
a pound foolish.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">First we are treated to fancy intelligent parsing and explaining (by non volunteers) as to why( volunteers) cannot have 64 000 dollars to document chapter efforts by volunteers! </div>
<div dir="auto">Mostly because they (non volunteers) said so!</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> When that was challenged we were treated to fancy legal explanations courtesy of the non volunteer legal attorney..when challenged by Oliver's well thought out logical response we got legal obsification...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> Most enlightening though of the we versus they attitude of the you guess it (non volunteers) was the revelation that 5 million dollars of internt society monies was given to some private group (non volunteer of course)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> When Oliver and others asked about how the non volunteers transferred gifted..allocated ..awarded 5 .million dollars to another non volunteer group while denying the volunteers request for 64000 dollars for documentation of chapter work </div>
<div dir="auto">We were informed by (non voluteer attorney) you dont need to see any documents regarding that, nothing to see here!.. (again because the non volunteers lawyer said so) when that didnt work and she was challenged by non volunteers...we given
More fancy legal word salad with </div>
<div dir="auto"> obsification on the side just for good measure...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Insert lyrics from well known song "you thought I was a donut you tried to glaze me"</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We should see this as a teaching moment as a proud member of the nyc chapter we see this circular demeaning paternalistic logic all the time in our work with the residents of the nyc housing authority... the largest in the country </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The people who live there are ignored by and on every turn by the same set up as we have here ..thier concerns are meet by the same platitudes and responses that always deliver the same message only we (non volunteers/non residents in both
instances) and we only have the only good ideas and how dare you question that..and think we are going to listen to you!..</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We (non volunteers) will circle the wagons and protect the non volunteers and forget the fact that the</div>
<div dir="auto">Volunteers are the heart and sole of any society including the internet...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This happens more the we all probably think .</div>
<div dir="auto">Notice the resistance over something so obvious and they cannot solve it without trying not to loose face and protect previous decisions thereby appearing to have no regard or even realizing we are supposed to be and act like a team and we they
are not!! </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is the seeds of devisiveness when you have no regard for your teammates ...point blank full stop</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">OK none can say we were not told!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Doug Frazier</div>
<div dir="auto">Proud Board Member and Volunteer of the nyc Chapter</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 05:10 Christian de Larrinaga via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
That's not the issue if I've understood what people are asking. The<br>
message appears to be ISOC is looking increasingly like a "black box" to<br>
the community saying it is treated as consumers rather than as an<br>
integral part of the decision and governance making process.<br>
<br>
<br>
vinton cerf via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a> writes:<br>
<br>
The foundation is formally a supporting organization under nonprofit tax<br>
law.<br>
V<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, 12:35 Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <<br>
<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
IIona:<br>
<br>
From your email, I understand there is no formal "contract for services"<br>
between ISOC and the ISOC Foundation. Is my interpretation correct?<br>
<br>
-ed<br>
ISOC Puerto Rico<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 12:04 PM Ilona Levine via Chapter-delegates <<br>
<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Olivier,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your follow up email. I think the use of the term<br>
"outsourcing" in the email below might have caused some confusion. You<br>
mentioned you are familiar with the “supporting organizations” and how they<br>
operate, but it might also be helpful for me to provide some additional<br>
background for others.<br>
<br>
As you know, the relationship between supporting and supported<br>
organizations is not a vendor or contractor relationship. Though<br>
the Foundation is a separate corporation, it is a controlled subsidiary of<br>
ISOC, not a third-party service provider or outside contractor. So ISOC is<br>
not “outsourcing” to the Foundation but instead, the two entities cooperate<br>
to achieve the mission of the Internet Society. In other words, as a<br>
supporting organization, the Foundation’s purpose is to operate for the<br>
benefit of, and to support, ISOC. In furtherance of that purpose, the<br>
Foundation conducts programs and activities that benefit ISOC and furthers<br>
ISOC’s mission. For example, the Foundation engages in communications<br>
activities at the direction of and to the benefit of ISOC.<br>
<br>
As you also know based on your extensive experience with nonprofits, the<br>
Internet Society Board develops the overall strategy for ISOC. Internet<br>
Society management then develops its action plan and in turn, works with<br>
the Foundation to ensure that it, as a supporting organization, provides<br>
the support necessary to achieve ISOC’s goals. The Foundation does that<br>
through its own action plan, which sets out objectives for all of its<br>
functions, including the communications function. So the Board sets the<br>
strategy, Internet Society management creates the action plans, and the<br>
Foundation management allocates resources to support those plans as<br>
necessary.<br>
<br>
After the approval of the 2025 action plans, ISOC will share them with<br>
the community. As discussed earlier, part of that will be Chris presenting<br>
to this community how the communications group will be tackling its work in<br>
the upcoming year.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Ilona<br>
<br>
<br>
*From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a><br>
*Date: *Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 8:47 AM<br>
*To: *Ilona Levine <<a href="mailto:levine@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">levine@isoc.org</a>, Ted IETF <<a href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a><br>
*Cc: *Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>, Sally<br>
Wentworth <<a href="mailto:wentworth@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">wentworth@isoc.org</a><br>
*Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17<br>
September 2024<br>
<br>
Dear Ilona,<br>
<br>
Further to our discussion two weeks ago regarding the definition of the<br>
relationship between the Internet Society and the Internet Society<br>
Foundation, in the absence of your response, I wish to reiterate the need<br>
for a clear outsourcing agreement between these entities. It is recognised<br>
as good business practice internationally to establish such agreements to<br>
delineate respective liabilities in the execution of these contracts.<br>
<br>
Responding to your note: "*All necessary legal documents, including<br>
agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of the<br>
two organizations.*"<br>
<br>
All I am asking is for them to be shared. If that is not possible, even<br>
in a redacted manner, for whatever reason, then please provide a list of<br>
the agreements to which you refer, including the date of the agreement, the<br>
name of the agreement, the signatory parties, and a brief description of<br>
each agreement.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to your prompt response.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier Crépin-Leblond<br>
<br>
<br>
On 24/09/2024 17:22, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Ilona,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for your follow-up.<br>
<br>
The thread may not have come all through. During the Chapter Advisory<br>
Council call, Ted mentioned the transfer of some responsibilities in<br>
relation to Communications from the Internet Society to the Internet<br>
Society Foundation. My initial question to Ted was in regards to the<br>
outsourcing agreement as follows:<br>
<br>
*"I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet Society<br>
Foundation may have been designated by the Internet Society as a<br>
"supporting organisation" of the Internet Society, it remains a distinct<br>
and separate legal entity. Therefore, I assume that any "outsourcing" of<br>
responsibilities such as Marketing and/or Communications would be defined<br>
in a written "contract for services" between the Parties setting out<br>
(inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party. Could you<br>
please provide the terms for such an agreement and any limitations therein?<br>
My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the<br>
Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These are<br>
fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be included in the<br>
"contract for services"".*<br>
<br>
The top level responsibility of the strategy of the Internet Society<br>
remains within the Internet Society. I find it surprising that an<br>
outsourcing entity would be able to dictate that strategy without it being<br>
agreed by the Internet Society itself.<br>
The Internet Society has the opportunity to outsource the execution of<br>
its Communications Plan to a supporting organisation on the basis of terms<br>
and conditions agreed between the parties. This requires outsourcing<br>
agreement(s) in order to know where the boundaries and responsibilities are<br>
between the two organisations, including their respective liabilities in<br>
the execution of these agreement(s).<br>
<br>
For example:<br>
<br>
Key Components of an Outsourcing Communications Agreement<br>
<br>
1. *Introduction and Definitions*:<br>
- Clearly define the parties involved.<br>
- Provide definitions for key terms used throughout the agreement.<br>
<br>
2. *Scope of Services*:<br>
- Detail the specific services to be outsourced.<br>
- Include service level agreements (SLAs) to set performance<br>
standards.<br>
<br>
3. *Term and Termination*:<br>
- Specify the duration of the agreement.<br>
- Outline conditions for termination by either party.<br>
<br>
4. *Pricing and Payment Terms*:<br>
- Define the pricing structure and payment schedule.<br>
- Include any penalties for late payments or performance failures.<br>
<br>
5. *Confidentiality and Data Protection*:<br>
- Ensure compliance with data protection laws.<br>
- Include confidentiality clauses to protect sensitive information.<br>
<br>
6. *Intellectual Property Rights*:<br>
- Clarify the ownership of any intellectual property created during<br>
the agreement.<br>
<br>
7. *Warranties and Liability*:<br>
- Outline the warranties provided by the service provider.<br>
- Define the liability limits for both parties.<br>
<br>
8. *Monitoring and Reporting*:<br>
- Establish how performance will be monitored and reported.<br>
- Include provisions for regular review meetings.<br>
<br>
9. *Dispute Resolution*:<br>
- Specify the process for resolving disputes.<br>
- Include mediation or arbitration clauses if applicable.<br>
<br>
10. *Exit Management*:<br>
- Plan for the transition of services back to the company or to<br>
another provider.<br>
- Include provisions for the transfer of data and assets.<br>
<br>
I trust that you mentioned: "All necessary legal documents, including<br>
agreements, have been put in place to respect the separate nature of the<br>
two organizations."<br>
<br>
Thus I would be interested in its details as explained in my email.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
On 23/09/2024 18:36, Ilona Levine wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Olivier,<br>
<br>
I understand that the nature of your request is to assist the Chapters<br>
Advisory Council and Chris Locke in preparation to his session on the<br>
communication plan. The agreement in place since 2018 between the<br>
Foundation and Internet Society focuses on the legal obligations in line<br>
with the Foundation's role as a 509(a)(3) and therefore, won’t be useful<br>
for that purpose.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Ilona<br>
<br>
<br>
*From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a><br>
*Date: *Sunday, September 22, 2024 at 8:52 AM<br>
*To: *Ilona Levine <<a href="mailto:levine@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">levine@isoc.org</a> <<a href="mailto:levine@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">levine@isoc.org</a>, Ted IETF<br>
<<a href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a><br>
*Cc: *Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>, Sally Wentworth <<a href="mailto:wentworth@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">wentworth@isoc.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:wentworth@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">wentworth@isoc.org</a><br>
*Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17<br>
September 2024<br>
<br>
Dear Ilona,<br>
<br>
thank you for clarifying that all necessary legal documents, including<br>
agreements, have been duly executed to respect the separate nature of the<br>
two organisations.<br>
<br>
I am aware of the publication of the original IETF Administration LLC<br>
agreements with the Internet Society, specifically:<br>
IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement (2020)<br>
<<a href="https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_Funding_Agreement_-_Executed_-_20201123.pdf" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_Funding_Agreement_-_Executed_-_20201123.pdf</a><br>
IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amendment (2020)<br>
<<a href="https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_ISOC_Funding_Amendment_Amendment_-_20201222.pdf" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/IETF_ISOC_Funding_Amendment_Amendment_-_20201222.pdf</a><br>
IETF-ISOC Funding Agreement Amended and Restated (2024)<br>
<<a href="https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/ISOC-IETF_Amended_Funding_Agreement_-_20240103_-_Redacted_Executed.pdf" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/media/documents/ISOC-IETF_Amended_Funding_Agreement_-_20240103_-_Redacted_Executed.pdf</a><br>
<br>
These documents are accessible on the IETF Administration LLC’s website<br>
at <a href="https://www.ietf.org/administration/overview/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/administration/overview/</a>.<br>
<br>
Could you kindly confirm whether the agreements between the Foundation<br>
and the Internet Society are also publicly available? I have been unable to<br>
locate them on either website.<br>
<br>
I would appreciate it if you could provide a list of the agreements to<br>
which you refer, including the date of the agreement, the name of the<br>
agreement, the signatory parties, and a brief description of each agreement.<br>
<br>
I look forward to your kind response.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
On 20/09/2024 19:48, Ilona Levine wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Olivier, thank you for your follow up email. You noted that you are<br>
aware of the tax requirements that apply to supporting organizations.<br>
Mainly, those requirements relate to supporting the mission of its<br>
supported entities. In this case, the Internet Society.<br>
<br>
As part of that support, the Foundation provides grants to other<br>
organizations that have missions consistent with the Internet Society’s in<br>
order to fund programs that further the Internet Society’s purposes. The<br>
Foundation also engages in activities that support Internet Society<br>
directly. For example, the Foundation engages in fundraising and<br>
communication activities for the benefit of the Internet Society.<br>
<br>
As you also pointed out, the Foundation is a separate legal entity. It<br>
is a controlled subsidiary of Internet Society. All necessary legal<br>
documents, including agreements, have been put in place to respect the<br>
separate nature of the two organizations.<br>
<br>
I trust this answers your question.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Ilona<br>
<br>
*Ilona Levine,* SVP, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:levine@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
levine@isoc.org</a>|<br>
<a href="http://internetsociety.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
internetsociety.org</a> | @internetsociety<br>
<br>
Donate today. <<a href="https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/3nUsQmJ</a><br>
<br>
*Help protect the Internet for everyone.*<br>
<br>
[image:<br>
<a href="https://backchannel.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/image001.png" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://backchannel.internetsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/image001.png</a>]<br>
<br>
This communication is the property of the Internet Society and may<br>
contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this<br>
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received it in error,<br>
please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the<br>
communication and any attachments.<br>
<br>
<br>
*From: *Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a><br>
*Date: *Friday, September 20, 2024 at 11:38 AM<br>
*To: *Ted IETF <<a href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ted.ietf@gmail.com</a>, Ilona Levine<br>
<<a href="mailto:levine@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">levine@isoc.org</a> <<a href="mailto:levine@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">levine@isoc.org</a><br>
*Cc: *Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>, Sally Wentworth <<a href="mailto:wentworth@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">wentworth@isoc.org</a><br>
<<a href="mailto:wentworth@isoc.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">wentworth@isoc.org</a><br>
*Subject: *Re: Follow-up on Chapters Advisory Council Meeting of 17<br>
September 2024<br>
<br>
Dear Ted,<br>
<br>
thank you for your follow-up on this matter. I am aware of the special<br>
tax terms in relation to "supporting organisations".<br>
<br>
That being said, the Internet Society Foundation is a distinct and<br>
separate legal entity to the Internet Society, irrespective of the<br>
relationship between them. As a result, any outsourcing task undertaken by<br>
one, for the other entity, would be defined in a contract, whether written,<br>
verbal or otherwise. If not, there is a lack of clarity and expectations<br>
about the relationship, which brings potential liability and risk that both<br>
entities are subjected to, in relation to the other's actions. Any lawyer<br>
would tell you that it is highly advisable to have a written contract, if<br>
only for legal protection.<br>
<br>
Thanks for letting me know that you are travelling. I am copying<br>
President and CEO Sally Wentworth in case you're unavailable for a length<br>
of time.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
On 20/09/2024 13:12, Ted Hardie wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Olivier,<br>
<br>
A supporting organization is a term of art in US tax law, please see:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/supporting-organizations-requirements-and-types" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/supporting-organizations-requirements-and-types</a><br>
<br>
and<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/section-509a3-supporting-organizations" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/section-509a3-supporting-organizations</a><br>
<br>
Explaining how the two relate is complicated enough that there are legal<br>
briefs on it; I have cc'ed the Society's chief counsel in case you would<br>
like that level of detail. The summary, however, is that a supporting<br>
organization is a charity because it supports the charitable purpose of the<br>
main organization. As a result, it can provide services to the main<br>
organization under the special tax rules noted above.<br>
<br>
Note that I am traveling and will generally be slow to respond for a few<br>
days, but hopefully the links above will get you started and Ilona can<br>
provide more detailed legal information as needed.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
Ted Hardie<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 6:24 AM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ocl@gih.com</a><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Ted,<br>
<br>
During this week’s Chapters Advisory Council call, you mentioned that the<br>
Internet Society Foundation, as a "supporting organisation" of the Internet<br>
Society, is managing the communications department for the Internet<br>
Society.<br>
<br>
Upon seeking clarification, you explained that the Internet Society<br>
Foundation comprises two elements: one philanthropic (grant-making) and the<br>
other as a "supporting organisation" of the Internet Society. "This implies<br>
that many of the supporting functions for the Internet Society as a whole<br>
are now part of the Foundation, primarily because the Foundation can<br>
provide these services to the Internet Society at no cost".<br>
<br>
You further elaborated that this "arrangement" allows the Internet<br>
Society to allocate its budget more effectively.<br>
<br>
I was previously unaware of this change. Although the Internet Society<br>
Foundation may have been designated by the Internet Society as a<br>
"supporting organisation" of the Internet Society, it remains a distinct<br>
and separate legal entity. Therefore, I assume that any "outsourcing" of<br>
responsibilities such as Marketing and/or Communications would be defined<br>
in a written "contract for services" between the Parties setting out<br>
(inter-alia) the terms, rights, and obligations of each Party. Could you<br>
please provide the terms for such an agreement and any limitations therein?<br>
<br>
My principal concern lies in distinguishing between executing the<br>
Communications Plan and drafting the Communications Plan. These are<br>
fundamentally different tasks and would undoubtedly be included in the<br>
"contract for services".<br>
<br>
The "contract for services" (together with any relevant supporting<br>
information) will be helpful input for both the Chapters Advisory Council<br>
and also for Chris Locke and his Team (including for the current "branding"<br>
presentations) in preparation for the promised session from Chris Locke to<br>
the Chapters Advisory Council.<br>
<br>
I look forward to your response and to receiving a copy of the "contract<br>
for services" agreement, together with any relevant supporting information<br>
as requested above.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ <span style="white-space:pre-wrap">
</span></blockquote>
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