<div dir="auto">I will be working in next draft of the submission today.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Greg<br clear="all"><br clear="all"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">***********************************<br>Greg Shatan<br>President, ISOC-NY<br>“The Internet is for Everyone”</div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 12:07 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
just to add to my email below - I do remind you that we are on a
tight time schedule since ISOC LIVE's funding will likely run out
at the end of August, thus I hope we can collectively work to get
this request to the ISOC Board of Trustees in good time, bearing in
mind they will also require time to discuss the pros and cons of the
request.<br>
Have a good week-end,<br>
<br>
Olivier</div><div><br>
<br>
<div>On 12/07/2024 16:43, Olivier MJ
Crépin-Leblond via Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Dear Greg,<br>
<br>
thank you for these very helpful comments.<br>
<br>
Whilst I agree with the points you have made, there is one bit
that I would interpret differently, where you says:<br>
<br>
"<font face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>Unless there is ambiguity in
how the poll was posed to the ChAC, I think it's highly likely
that it should be considered a formal vote.</b> "</font><br>
<br>
There is ambiguity because the Poll that was emailed to the ChAC
delegates was labelled a "consensus call", which some could debate
it is not.<br>
<br>
The many differing opinions expressed as to the intention and
interpretation of the rules as to the correct “process” required
to be followed in this matter in order to comply with the
procedures as drafted could give rise to a claim that the
procedures are defective and that the decisions taken in this
matter which rely on these rules are null and void.<br>
<br>
The scale of the differing interpretations as to meaning could
also be considered as supporting a “serious procedural defect”
claim.<br>
<br>
I asked Richard Hill, prior ChAC Chair and also drafter of some of
earlier drafts of the rules. In his view, "there was consensus,
and, a fortiori, rough consensus, so there was no reason to call a
vote. It seems to me that the vote, being unnecessary, is null and
void."<br>
<br>
My view is that the only option for next steps is “start again”
without delay and make sure that everyone understands the rules
they are following for this purpose. This means restarting by
calling a new Chapter Advisory Council meeting and performing a
consensus call during that meeting. This appears to agree with
your highlighted option.<br>
<br>
As a second stage, clearly there needs to be a review of the
wording of the Chapter Advisory Council Procedures in order to
ensure that they clearly state what the approved procedures
require to be followed. One thing that everyone appears to agree
on is that there are some conflicting, confusing clauses.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 08/07/2024 09:20, Greg Shatan via
Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I have a few comments
in my personal capacity (i.e., not as ChAC-SC Secretary),
going from general to more specific comments.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">First, per our
Charter, our "primary purpose" is "to channel and facilitate
advice and recommendations ... in a bottom-up manner."
(Charter, Section 2.1) In order to carry out that purpose,
we must have clear and readily implementable methods of
deciding what advice and/or recommendations we are giving.
We also need to be mindful that how we do things needs to
follow (and not be inconsistent with) the Charter and the
Rules & Procedures (R&P). </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The Charter and the
R&P both speak to the issue of decision-making. The
Charter is our foundational document and, as such, should be
given priority in the case of a direct conflict between the
Charter and R&P; however, the Charter specifically
describes one of the primary functions of the R&P is to
set out "decision-making processes." (Charter, Section 8.2).
Section 10 of the R&P states that "in any case of
ambiguity ... and in the interpretation of the Chapters AC
[R&P] and the Chapters AC Charter, the provision of the
latter shall prevail."</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">As noted previously, the
Charter states in Section 7.5 that "[t]he Chapters AC ...
shall normally take decisions by consensus among
participants. Formal votes, which shall be by a majority
of those present at the meeting, are only to be used if
rough consensus cannot be reached after reasonable
effort." Section 7.5 only deals with formal votes taken
at meetings; it is silent with regard to formal votes
taken at any other time. Section 7.7 states that "[f]or
all meetings of the Chapters AC, the quorum shall be the
one defined in the [R&P]." Section 5 of the R&P
states that "[f]or all meetings of the Chapters AC, the
quorum shall be fifteen per cent (15%) of the total number
of </font><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Chapters
AC Representatives with voting rights as the time the
quorum is determined." In addition, the quorum must
include at least one Rep from each ISOC Global region.</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Section 6 of the
R&P ("Other decisions") provides more detail regarding
decision-making processes. Section 6 begins by
emphasizing that "</span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">based
on Section 7 of the said Charter, decisions of the
Chapters AC ... shall normally be made by consensus among
Representatives." Section 6 goes on to state that
"[f]ormal electronic votes, which shall be by a majority
of those with rights to vote, are only to be used if rough
consensus cannot be achieved after reasonable effort."
Section 6 does not distinguish between formal votes at
meetings and formal votes taken at any other time; it is
written to cover all voting scenarios. </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">The language of Section 6
creates a direct conflict between Section 7.5 of the
Charter and Section 6 of the R&P, at least with
regards to votes at meetings: Section 7.5 states that such
a vote "shall be by a majority of those present at the
meeting," while Section 6 says that votes "shall be a
majority of those with rights to vote." Section 6 leads
to a very different result than Section 7.5 when applied
to votes at meetings. For example, if there are 101
Representatives with voting rights, a meeting would be
quorate with as few as 16 Representatives. If a ChAC
meeting takes place with 16 Reps, a majority vote can be
achieved with 9 votes (or more). Those 9 votes represent
only 9% of all Representatives. In contrast, under
Section 6, a vote at that meeting will only succeed if at
least 51 Representatives vote in favor. The fact that the
meeting is quorate (which typically means that the meeting
can be used to make decisions) does not seem to matter.
There is no way that both of these provisions can be given
meaning when applied to a formal vote at a meeting. Based
on Section 10 of the R&P, it is clear that Section 7.5
of the Charter will prevail, and the rule in Section 6 of
the R&P will be disregarded.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">For votes outside of meetings,
the result is far less clear. Since Section 7.5 only
applies to meetings, there is no direct conflict between
Section 7.5 and Section 6. However, there is still a
peculiar result (i.e., votes at meetings can carry with
less than 10% of the total number of Reps with rights to
vote, but votes outside of meetings will only carry if at
least 51% of the total number of Reps with rights to vote
cast their votes in favor). Without a specific statement
that this result was intended, I have to believe this
result is a mistake and was not intended. Is this an
"ambiguity" such that Section 10 of the R&P dictates
that the Charter must prevail? Unfortunately, I don't
think it is -- even though it is (in my view) a "clear
error."</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">So where does that leave us?
Here are my thoughts:</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">We need to revise the
R&P and/or the Charter to eliminate this absurd
result, and have clear rules regarding votes at
meetings and at other times. If there is a reason to
have different rules (and different outcomes), the
differing rules need to be clearly states and the
reason for the difference also needs to be clearly
stated.</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">In my mind, there is
an open question: <b>Did the ChAC make a reasonable
effort to achieve a rough consensus</b>? This is a
necessary predicate to a formal vote; if we did not do
so, the formal vote violates the Charter and R&P
and is most likely invalid. <b>I am far from sure
that we made the required "reasonable effort" to
reach consensus before shifting to the Surveymonkey
poll.</b></font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Did the Surveymonkey
poll constitute a "formal vote"? The term "formal
vote" is not defined in the Charter or the R&P;
however, it is reasonable to say that it refers to any
vote that is used to make a decision within any
deliberative body. I think it's also fair to say that
a "formal vote" is meant to contrast with surveys,
polls and other actions that are intended to "take the
temperature of the room," "get a sense of where we
are," "gauge interest" but that are not intended to
have the vote result be recognized as the decision of
the body. <b>Unless there is ambiguity in how the
poll was posed to the ChAC, I think it's highly
likely that it should be considered a formal vote.</b> </font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>We do have some
options:</b></font></li>
<ul>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Section 6 of the
R&P provides more flexibility in decision-making
than the discussion of consensus vs. formal vote
would indicate: Decisions regarding advice and
recommendations can "be made in person and/or by any
means of electronic communication (e.g. email, text
messages applications, electronic voting systems,
remote audio/video conferencing platforms, among
others." Any of these methods can be used to arrive
at consensus (or to take a formal vote, as long as
the process is "open and transparent").</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>As a result (and
considering the rule regarding consensus efforts
before voting), we could turn back to any of these
other methods or to a meeting to make a consensus
decision and use that consensus decision as the
basis for giving formal advice to the BoT,
essentially superseding this vote result.</b></font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">I think the current
result is technically correct, but I think that is
unfair and unfortunate and does not represent the
intentions of the active ChAC membersx. It's clear
that both proposals had strong backing; diluting
that by casting that as a recommendation rather than
advice weakens the result and leaves its intended
result less likely to be achieved.</font></li>
</ul>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Apologies for the TL,DR nature
of this email, but I did want to be as detailed as I could
be (at 3 am) to get these thoughts.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Best regards,</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Greg</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at
6:19 PM Christopher Hawker via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
For clarity, 7.5 reads as follows:</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:3px solid rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i>The Chapters AC, the Steering Committee and
Subcommittees shall normally take decisions by
consensus among participants. Formal votes, which
shall be by a majority of those present at the
meeting, are only to be used if rough consensus
cannot be reached after reasonable effort.</i></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i><br>
</i></div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Section 7 of the Charter refers to meetings held by
the ChAC. This poll was not held during a meeting
therefore 7.5 does not apply. If you wanted to go down
this route, you could rely on 7.2 and gather support
from another 9 chapters through a petition to the
Chair to call a meeting at which consensus could be
sought or a formal vote if rough consensus cannot be
reached (s7.5).</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I understand the concern and fully support the two
proposals, however, there is no point in arguing
semantics regarding the definition of words.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regards,</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Christopher Hawker</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_2307607645930901612m_-1004870928560394007divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Eduardo Diaz <<a href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 8, 2024 1:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Christopher Hawker <<a href="mailto:chris@thesysadmin.au" target="_blank">chris@thesysadmin.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>>;
ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] The results
of the recent polls regarding two issues from the
Puerto Rico Chapter and the proposed test for
transmission to the BoT.</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"> See my comments
below:</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"> <br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 10:54 AM
Christopher Hawker <<a href="mailto:chris@thesysadmin.au" target="_blank">chris@thesysadmin.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hello Ed,</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
A majority (according to the
Meriam-Webster Dictionary) is defined as
"a number or percentage equaling more than
half of a total", in this case as there
were 101 chapters with a "right to vote"
this majority number would be 51 (as this
is more than 50% of the eligible voting
chapters), i.e. a minimum of 51 chapters
must have voted "YES" in order to request
a formal response from the Board of
Trustees. As this requirement was not met,
the ChAC-SC is unable to request a formal
response. Having said that, as Cheryl has
advised given that a majority was reached
in the number of respondents, they
proposed sending a recommendation to the
BoT.</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:3px solid rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The term "majority" is not explicitly
defined in the Rules and Procedures and
is thus subject to interpretation,
creating ambiguity.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In order to avoid interpretation and
ambiguity, it would be an argument/defense
to use the definition of a word from a
recognised and published dictionary (e.g.
Collins, Oxford, Meriam-Webster).</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
As you said, 7.5 of the ChAC charter
reads: "Formal votes, which shall be by a
majority of those present at the meeting,
are only to be used if rough consensus
cannot be reached". This poll/vote was not
taken during a meeting; it was an email
sent out to chapters who were entitled to
cast a vote in the poll. As such, 7.5 does
not apply.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><font size="4">Comment by -ed: </font></font></i><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><font size="4" face="verdana, sans-serif">Section 7.5
should have been followed from the
beginning. According to Section 7.5, the
process requires holding a meeting to
discuss the proposals and attempt to reach
a rough consensus. If rough consensus is
not reached during that meeting, a formal
vote should be taken at the same meeting.
The concept of a "consensus poll" does not
exist in any ChAC governing documents.</font></i></span></div>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><font size="4" face="verdana, sans-serif">Section 10 of the
ChAC Charter was included to address
ambiguities. We must look into the governing
documents for proper definitions given the
context of the ChAC, not rely on a
dictionary.</font></i></p>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"> <br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:3px solid rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Therefore, the consensus poll, equated
here to a formal vote, is valid under
Section 7.5 of the ChAC Charter.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is not the case. This is not a valid
vote under 7.5 of the ChAC charter as this
poll/vote was not taken during a ChAC
meeting.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
While there was strong support from those
who did vote/poll, it does not meet the
requirements to trigger a formal reply
from the BoT. Having said this (and as
mentioned earlier), the ChAC-SC recognises
the strong support from those who voted
and as a result will request a reply from
the BoT. Unless a new vote/poll is held
and it is verified that each eligible
voting chapter has received their virtual
ballot paper, this is as good as it's
going to get.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regards,<br>
Christopher Hawker</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
P.S. To avoid any ambiguity, I do not have
an opinion regarding challenging the
interpretation of the polling results and
this email is simply to clarify some
definitions, which may make things easier
to understand. I am also not affiliated
with the ChAC-SC, BoT, or any other ISOC
mechanism other than my position on the
board for the Australian chapter. This is
also sent in my personal capacity.</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_2307607645930901612m_-1004870928560394007x_m_-2819615387879344775divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>>
on behalf of Eduardo Diaz via
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 8, 2024 12:10
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">
0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>>;
ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates]
The results of the recent polls
regarding two issues from the Puerto
Rico Chapter and the proposed test for
transmission to the BoT.</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dear ChAC-SC,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
ISOC Puerto Rico Board formally
challenges the interpretation of
the recent polling results
regarding the two proposals
submitted by our chapter to the
ChAC-SC. The current stance, which
prevents these proposals from
being sent as formal advice due to
an alleged insufficient
participation level, is based on a
misinterpretation of our governing
documents.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The phrase “…which shall be by a
majority of those with rights to
vote…” in Section 6 of the ChAC
Rules and Procedures (ChAC RoPs)
was intended to include only
chapters in good standing with a
designated ChAC delegate. The term
"majority" is not explicitly
defined in the Rules and
Procedures and is thus subject to
interpretation, creating
ambiguity. Section 10 of the same
document addresses such
ambiguities: “In any case of
ambiguity... the provision of the
[ChAC] Charter shall prevail.”</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The ChAC Charter (ChAC C), Section
7.5, clearly states: “Formal
votes, which shall be by a
majority of those present at the
meeting, are only to be used if
rough consensus cannot be
reached.” This means the
participants, not the entire
electorate, are counted for formal
votes.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Therefore, the consensus poll,
equated here to a formal vote, is
valid under Section 7.5 of the
ChAC Charter. Both proposals
received majority support from
those who participated, thus
meeting the requirements for
formal advice submission. Treating
these as recommendations
undermines the Charter’s intent.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">ISOC
Puerto Rico Board insists that
both proposals be transmitted to
the ISOC Board as formal advice. </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">-ed</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at
7:29 PM Cheryl Langdon-Orr via
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">The message you
find attached outlines the
procedures and results of the
poll conducted by the Chapters
Advisory Council (ChAC) of the
Internet Society, conducted via
Survey Monkey between June 17th
and July 1st, and aimed to
gather support for two proposals
from the Puerto Rico Chapter
among the 101 Chapters with
voting rights. The first
proposal was to open the Chapter
Delegate email list to all
Chapter Members as observers,
while the second was to
reinstate funding for the ISOC
LIVE video and archiving
services.<br>
<br>
The results showed that while a
majority of responding Chapters
supported both proposals, the
required level of support for
approval required by the ChAC
Rules and Procedures for sending
advice to the Board of Trustees
still needs to be reached.
Specifically, 66.04% voted in
favour of the first proposal,
and for the second, 88.68% voted
in favour. However, due to the
rules requiring a majority of
all eligible Chapters to vote
'yes,' the proposals still need
to pass. <br>
<br>
Despite the ChAC being unable to
send “formal advice” to the
Board of Trustees, the ChAC
Steering Committee is taking a
proactive step. We propose
sending a “recommendation” to
the BoT regarding the two
proposals since their approval
was clear among the poll
respondents.<br>
<br>
I've included more details in
the attached PDF. If you need
additional information or access
to the specific results and
discussions, we have also
included below reference links
to summaries and presentations
available on Box.com.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Cheryl Langdon-Or</i></font><font size="4" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>r</i></font><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">, </font></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Chair 2024 of the ChAC -SC</font></div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="line-height:0;vertical-align:bottom;padding-right:10px;padding-top:20px;padding-bottom:20px" width="107" valign="bottom" align="left"> <a href="https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><img alt="" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;display:block;border:1px solid rgb(238,238,238)" src="https://thumbs.about.me/thumbnail/users/c/h/e/cheryl.langdonorr_emailsig.jpg?_1325540751_01" width="105" height="70"> </a></td>
<td style="line-height:1.1;vertical-align:bottom;padding-top:20px;padding-bottom:20px" valign="bottom" align="left"> <img style="border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;overflow:hidden" src="https://about.me/t/sig?u=cheryl.LangdonOrr" width="1" height="1">
<div style="font-size:18px;font-weight:bold;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Proxima Nova",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
Cheryl Langdon-Orr</div>
<a href="https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb" style="text-decoration:none;font-size:12px;color:rgb(43,130,173);font-family:"Proxima Nova",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr </a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter
Officer you are automatically
subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly
synchronized with the Internet
Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.<br>
-<br>
View the Internet Society Code of
Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
<span>-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>Notice</b>:</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">This
email may contain confidential
information, is subject to legal
privilege, and is intended for the
use of the named addressee only.
If you are not the intended
recipient, you must not use,
disclose or copy any part of this
email. If you have received this
email by mistake, please notify
the sender and delete this message
immediately.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
<span>-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>Notice</b>:</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">This email may
contain confidential information, is subject
to legal privilege, and is intended for the
use of the named addressee only. If you are
not the intended recipient, you must not use,
disclose or copy any part of this email. If
you have received this email by mistake,
please notify the sender and delete this
message immediately.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.<br>
-<br>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" target="_blank">https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.
-
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
<a href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html" target="_blank">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" target="_blank">https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.
-
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
<a href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html" target="_blank">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a></pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div>