<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">What is the next step in this saga?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">-ed</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 8:09 PM Judith Hellerstein via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div style="padding-bottom:1px">
<p>HI Greg,</p>
<p>Thanks for this helpful comments. These were very helpful.
Perhaps if we had known this before, we could have done a poll at
the meeting itself. According to the attendance records kept,
there were 39 people present <br>
</p>
<p>According to the stats kept by ISOC--List last updated on 20 May
2024 (Total no of Chapters: 120, Total no of Chapters with a ChAC
representative appointed: 90 (75%), Total no of Chapters without a
ChAC representative: 30 (25%))</p>
<p>From my understanding, we went for a survey/vote because less
than 50% of chapters with a Chapter Advisory rep were present at
the meeting, and we wanted to get feedback from all chapters. I
can understand the reasons for this, but now that we know the
rules, we should strive to do polls at these meetings despite not
having 50% of the chapter reps present until we change the bylaws.
Since we need as little as 16 chapter reps to have quorum.</p>
<p>Also, despite our sending advice or recommendations to the Board,
I believe that the board does not have to accept, consider, or
adopt them</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Judith Hellerstein</p>
<p>Chapter Advisory rep for ISOC DC<br>
</p>
<pre cols="80">_________________________________________________________________________
Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO
Hellerstein & Associates
3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008
Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein
Mobile/Whats app: +1202-333-6517
E-mail: <a href="mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com" target="_blank">Judith@jhellerstein.com</a> Website: <a href="http://www.jhellerstein.com" target="_blank">www.jhellerstein.com</a>
Linked In: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/</a>
Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
</pre>
<div>On 7/8/24 3:20 AM, Greg Shatan via
Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I have a few comments
in my personal capacity (i.e., not as ChAC-SC Secretary),
going from general to more specific comments.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">First, per our Charter,
our "primary purpose" is "to channel and facilitate advice and
recommendations ... in a bottom-up manner." (Charter, Section
2.1) In order to carry out that purpose, we must have clear
and readily implementable methods of deciding what advice
and/or recommendations we are giving. We also need to be
mindful that how we do things needs to follow (and not be
inconsistent with) the Charter and the Rules & Procedures
(R&P). </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The Charter and the
R&P both speak to the issue of decision-making. The
Charter is our foundational document and, as such, should be
given priority in the case of a direct conflict between the
Charter and R&P; however, the Charter specifically
describes one of the primary functions of the R&P is to
set out "decision-making processes." (Charter, Section 8.2).
Section 10 of the R&P states that "in any case of
ambiguity ... and in the interpretation of the Chapters AC
[R&P] and the Chapters AC Charter, the provision of the
latter shall prevail."</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">As noted previously, the Charter
states in Section 7.5 that "[t]he Chapters AC ... shall
normally take decisions by consensus among participants.
Formal votes, which shall be by a majority of those present
at the meeting, are only to be used if rough consensus
cannot be reached after reasonable effort." Section 7.5
only deals with formal votes taken at meetings; it is silent
with regard to formal votes taken at any other time. Section
7.7 states that "[f]or all meetings of the Chapters AC, the
quorum shall be the one defined in the [R&P]." Section 5
of the R&P states that "[f]or all meetings of the
Chapters AC, the quorum shall be fifteen per cent (15%) of
the total number of </font><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Chapters AC
Representatives with voting rights as the time the quorum is
determined." In addition, the quorum must include at least
one Rep from each ISOC Global region.</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Section 6 of the
R&P ("Other decisions") provides more detail regarding
decision-making processes. Section 6 begins by emphasizing
that "</span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">based on
Section 7 of the said Charter, decisions of the Chapters AC
... shall normally be made by consensus among
Representatives." Section 6 goes on to state that "[f]ormal
electronic votes, which shall be by a majority of those with
rights to vote, are only to be used if rough consensus
cannot be achieved after reasonable effort." Section 6 does
not distinguish between formal votes at meetings and formal
votes taken at any other time; it is written to cover all
voting scenarios. </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">The language of Section 6 creates
a direct conflict between Section 7.5 of the Charter and
Section 6 of the R&P, at least with regards to votes at
meetings: Section 7.5 states that such a vote "shall be by a
majority of those present at the meeting," while Section 6
says that votes "shall be a majority of those with rights to
vote." Section 6 leads to a very different result than
Section 7.5 when applied to votes at meetings. For example,
if there are 101 Representatives with voting rights, a
meeting would be quorate with as few as 16 Representatives.
If a ChAC meeting takes place with 16 Reps, a majority vote
can be achieved with 9 votes (or more). Those 9 votes
represent only 9% of all Representatives. In contrast,
under Section 6, a vote at that meeting will only succeed if
at least 51 Representatives vote in favor. The fact that the
meeting is quorate (which typically means that the meeting
can be used to make decisions) does not seem to matter.
There is no way that both of these provisions can be given
meaning when applied to a formal vote at a meeting. Based on
Section 10 of the R&P, it is clear that Section 7.5 of
the Charter will prevail, and the rule in Section 6 of the
R&P will be disregarded.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">For votes outside of meetings,
the result is far less clear. Since Section 7.5 only
applies to meetings, there is no direct conflict between
Section 7.5 and Section 6. However, there is still a
peculiar result (i.e., votes at meetings can carry with less
than 10% of the total number of Reps with rights to vote,
but votes outside of meetings will only carry if at least
51% of the total number of Reps with rights to vote cast
their votes in favor). Without a specific statement that
this result was intended, I have to believe this result is a
mistake and was not intended. Is this an "ambiguity" such
that Section 10 of the R&P dictates that the Charter
must prevail? Unfortunately, I don't think it is -- even
though it is (in my view) a "clear error."</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">So where does that leave us?
Here are my thoughts:</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">We need to revise the
R&P and/or the Charter to eliminate this absurd
result, and have clear rules regarding votes at meetings
and at other times. If there is a reason to have
different rules (and different outcomes), the differing
rules need to be clearly states and the reason for the
difference also needs to be clearly stated.</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">In my mind, there is an
open question: <b>Did the ChAC make a reasonable effort
to achieve a rough consensus</b>? This is a necessary
predicate to a formal vote; if we did not do so, the
formal vote violates the Charter and R&P and is most
likely invalid. <b>I am far from sure that we made the
required "reasonable effort" to reach consensus before
shifting to the Surveymonkey poll.</b></font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Did the Surveymonkey
poll constitute a "formal vote"? The term "formal vote"
is not defined in the Charter or the R&P; however,
it is reasonable to say that it refers to any vote that
is used to make a decision within any deliberative
body. I think it's also fair to say that a "formal
vote" is meant to contrast with surveys, polls and other
actions that are intended to "take the temperature of
the room," "get a sense of where we are," "gauge
interest" but that are not intended to have the vote
result be recognized as the decision of the body. <b>Unless
there is ambiguity in how the poll was posed to the
ChAC, I think it's highly likely that it should be
considered a formal vote.</b> </font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>We do have some
options:</b></font></li>
<ul>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Section 6 of the
R&P provides more flexibility in decision-making
than the discussion of consensus vs. formal vote would
indicate: Decisions regarding advice and
recommendations can "be made in person and/or by any
means of electronic communication (e.g. email, text
messages applications, electronic voting systems,
remote audio/video conferencing platforms, among
others." Any of these methods can be used to arrive
at consensus (or to take a formal vote, as long as the
process is "open and transparent").</font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>As a result (and
considering the rule regarding consensus efforts
before voting), we could turn back to any of these
other methods or to a meeting to make a consensus
decision and use that consensus decision as the
basis for giving formal advice to the BoT,
essentially superseding this vote result.</b></font></li>
<li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">I think the current
result is technically correct, but I think that is
unfair and unfortunate and does not represent the
intentions of the active ChAC membersx. It's clear
that both proposals had strong backing; diluting that
by casting that as a recommendation rather than advice
weakens the result and leaves its intended result less
likely to be achieved.</font></li>
</ul>
</ul>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Apologies for the TL,DR nature of
this email, but I did want to be as detailed as I could be
(at 3 am) to get these thoughts.</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Best regards,</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Greg</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 6:19 PM
Christopher Hawker via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
For clarity, 7.5 reads as follows:</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-width:3px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i>The Chapters AC, the Steering Committee and
Subcommittees shall normally take decisions by
consensus among participants. Formal votes, which
shall be by a majority of those present at the
meeting, are only to be used if rough consensus
cannot be reached after reasonable effort.</i></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<i><br>
</i></div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Section 7 of the Charter refers to meetings held by the
ChAC. This poll was not held during a meeting therefore
7.5 does not apply. If you wanted to go down this route,
you could rely on 7.2 and gather support from another 9
chapters through a petition to the Chair to call a
meeting at which consensus could be sought or a formal
vote if rough consensus cannot be reached (s7.5).</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I understand the concern and fully support the two
proposals, however, there is no point in arguing
semantics regarding the definition of words.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regards,</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Christopher Hawker</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-2369842697384154562m_-1004870928560394007divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Eduardo Diaz <<a href="mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com" target="_blank">eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 8, 2024 1:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Christopher Hawker <<a href="mailto:chris@thesysadmin.au" target="_blank">chris@thesysadmin.au</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>>;
ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] The results of
the recent polls regarding two issues from the Puerto
Rico Chapter and the proposed test for transmission to
the BoT.</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
See my comments below:</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 10:54 AM
Christopher Hawker <<a href="mailto:chris@thesysadmin.au" target="_blank">chris@thesysadmin.au</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hello Ed,</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
A majority (according to the Meriam-Webster
Dictionary) is defined as "a number or
percentage equaling more than half of a
total", in this case as there were 101
chapters with a "right to vote" this
majority number would be 51 (as this is more
than 50% of the eligible voting chapters),
i.e. a minimum of 51 chapters must have
voted "YES" in order to request a formal
response from the Board of Trustees. As this
requirement was not met, the ChAC-SC is
unable to request a formal response. Having
said that, as Cheryl has advised given that
a majority was reached in the number of
respondents, they proposed sending a
recommendation to the BoT.</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-width:3px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The term "majority" is not explicitly
defined in the Rules and Procedures and is
thus subject to interpretation, creating
ambiguity.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In order to avoid interpretation and
ambiguity, it would be an argument/defense
to use the definition of a word from a
recognised and published dictionary (e.g.
Collins, Oxford, Meriam-Webster).</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
As you said, 7.5 of the ChAC charter reads:
"Formal votes, which shall be by a majority
of those present at the meeting, are only to
be used if rough consensus cannot be
reached". This poll/vote was not taken
during a meeting; it was an email sent out
to chapters who were entitled to cast a vote
in the poll. As such, 7.5 does not apply.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><font size="4">Comment by -ed: </font></font></i><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><font size="4" face="verdana, sans-serif">Section 7.5
should have been followed from the
beginning. According to Section 7.5, the
process requires holding a meeting to
discuss the proposals and attempt to reach a
rough consensus. If rough consensus is not
reached during that meeting, a formal vote
should be taken at the same meeting. The
concept of a "consensus poll" does not exist
in any ChAC governing documents.</font></i></span></div>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><font size="4" face="verdana, sans-serif">Section 10 of the
ChAC Charter was included to address
ambiguities. We must look into the governing
documents for proper definitions given the
context of the ChAC, not rely on a dictionary.</font></i></p>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-width:3px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Therefore, the consensus poll, equated
here to a formal vote, is valid under
Section 7.5 of the ChAC Charter.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is not the case. This is not a valid
vote under 7.5 of the ChAC charter as this
poll/vote was not taken during a ChAC
meeting.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
While there was strong support from those
who did vote/poll, it does not meet the
requirements to trigger a formal reply from
the BoT. Having said this (and as mentioned
earlier), the ChAC-SC recognises the strong
support from those who voted and as a result
will request a reply from the BoT. Unless a
new vote/poll is held and it is verified
that each eligible voting chapter has
received their virtual ballot paper, this is
as good as it's going to get.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regards,<br>
Christopher Hawker</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
P.S. To avoid any ambiguity, I do not have
an opinion regarding challenging the
interpretation of the polling results and
this email is simply to clarify some
definitions, which may make things easier to
understand. I am also not affiliated with
the ChAC-SC, BoT, or any other ISOC
mechanism other than my position on the
board for the Australian chapter. This is
also sent in my personal capacity.</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-2369842697384154562m_-1004870928560394007x_m_-2819615387879344775divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>>
on behalf of Eduardo Diaz via
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 8, 2024 12:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">
0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>>;
ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates]
The results of the recent polls regarding
two issues from the Puerto Rico Chapter
and the proposed test for transmission to
the BoT.</font>
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Dear ChAC-SC,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
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<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
ISOC Puerto Rico Board formally
challenges the interpretation of the
recent polling results regarding the
two proposals submitted by our
chapter to the ChAC-SC. The current
stance, which prevents these
proposals from being sent as formal
advice due to an alleged
insufficient participation level, is
based on a misinterpretation of our
governing documents.</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The phrase “…which shall be by a
majority of those with rights to
vote…” in Section 6 of the ChAC
Rules and Procedures (ChAC RoPs) was
intended to include only chapters in
good standing with a designated ChAC
delegate. The term "majority" is not
explicitly defined in the Rules and
Procedures and is thus subject to
interpretation, creating ambiguity.
Section 10 of the same document
addresses such ambiguities: “In any
case of ambiguity... the provision
of the [ChAC] Charter shall
prevail.”</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The ChAC Charter (ChAC C), Section
7.5, clearly states: “Formal votes,
which shall be by a majority of
those present at the meeting, are
only to be used if rough consensus
cannot be reached.” This means the
participants, not the entire
electorate, are counted for formal
votes.</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Therefore, the consensus poll,
equated here to a formal vote, is
valid under Section 7.5 of the ChAC
Charter. Both proposals received
majority support from those who
participated, thus meeting the
requirements for formal advice
submission. Treating these as
recommendations undermines the
Charter’s intent.</p>
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</p>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">ISOC
Puerto Rico Board insists that both
proposals be transmitted to the ISOC
Board as formal advice. </span><br>
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</span></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">-ed</span></div>
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<br>
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<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at
7:29 PM Cheryl Langdon-Orr via
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">The message you
find attached outlines the
procedures and results of the poll
conducted by the Chapters Advisory
Council (ChAC) of the Internet
Society, conducted via Survey
Monkey between June 17th and July
1st, and aimed to gather support
for two proposals from the Puerto
Rico Chapter among the 101
Chapters with voting rights. The
first proposal was to open the
Chapter Delegate email list to all
Chapter Members as observers,
while the second was to reinstate
funding for the ISOC LIVE video
and archiving services.<br>
<br>
The results showed that while a
majority of responding Chapters
supported both proposals, the
required level of support for
approval required by the ChAC
Rules and Procedures for sending
advice to the Board of Trustees
still needs to be reached.
Specifically, 66.04% voted in
favour of the first proposal, and
for the second, 88.68% voted in
favour. However, due to the rules
requiring a majority of all
eligible Chapters to vote 'yes,'
the proposals still need to pass.
<br>
<br>
Despite the ChAC being unable to
send “formal advice” to the Board
of Trustees, the ChAC Steering
Committee is taking a proactive
step. We propose sending a
“recommendation” to the BoT
regarding the two proposals since
their approval was clear among the
poll respondents.<br>
<br>
I've included more details in the
attached PDF. If you need
additional information or access
to the specific results and
discussions, we have also included
below reference links to summaries
and presentations available on
Box.com.<br>
</div>
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<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
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<div><font size="4" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Cheryl
Langdon-Or</i></font><font size="4" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>r</i></font><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">, </font></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Chair
2024 of the ChAC -SC</font></div>
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<a href="https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><img alt="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: block; border: 1px solid rgb(238, 238, 238);" src="https://thumbs.about.me/thumbnail/users/c/h/e/cheryl.langdonorr_emailsig.jpg?_1325540751_01" width="105" height="70">
</a></td>
<td style="line-height:1.1;vertical-align:bottom;padding-top:20px;padding-bottom:20px" valign="bottom" align="left">
<img style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden;" src="https://about.me/t/sig?u=cheryl.LangdonOrr" width="1" height="1">
<div style="font-size:18px;font-weight:bold;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Proxima Nova",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
Cheryl Langdon-Orr</div>
<a href="https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb" style="text-decoration:none;font-size:12px;color:rgb(43,130,173);font-family:"Proxima Nova",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr
</a></td>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</blockquote>
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<div dir="ltr"><font style="color:rgb(34,34,34)" face="verdana, sans-serif"><b>Notice</b>:</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">This email may
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or copy any part of this email. If you have
received this email by mistake, please notify
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_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically
subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the
Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.<br>
-<br>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
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<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" target="_blank">https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.
-
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<u></u><u></u>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS): <a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.<br>
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View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><b>Notice</b>:</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">This email may contain confidential information, is subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.</span><br></div></div>