<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">See my comments below:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 10:54 AM Christopher Hawker <<a href="mailto:chris@thesysadmin.au">chris@thesysadmin.au</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-2819615387879344775">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hello Ed,</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
A majority (according to the Meriam-Webster Dictionary) is defined as "a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total", in this case as there were 101 chapters with a "right to vote" this majority number would be 51 (as this is more than 50% of the
eligible voting chapters), i.e. a minimum of 51 chapters must have voted "YES" in order to request a formal response from the Board of Trustees. As this requirement was not met, the ChAC-SC is unable to request a formal response. Having said that, as Cheryl
has advised given that a majority was reached in the number of respondents, they proposed sending a recommendation to the BoT.</div>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-width:3px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The term "majority" is not explicitly defined in the Rules and Procedures and is thus subject to interpretation, creating ambiguity.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In order to avoid interpretation and ambiguity, it would be an argument/defense to use the definition of a word from a recognised and published dictionary (e.g. Collins, Oxford, Meriam-Webster).</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
As you said, 7.5 of the ChAC charter reads: "Formal votes, which shall be by a majority of those present at the meeting, are only to be used if rough consensus cannot be reached". This poll/vote was not taken during a meeting; it was an email sent out to chapters
who were entitled to cast a vote in the poll. As such, 7.5 does not apply.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><i><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><font size="4">Comment by -ed: </font></font></i><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><font face="verdana, sans-serif" size="4">Section 7.5 should have been followed from the beginning. According to Section 7.5, the process requires holding a meeting to discuss the proposals and attempt to reach a rough consensus. If rough consensus is not reached during that meeting, a formal vote should be taken at the same meeting. The concept of a "consensus poll" does not exist in any ChAC governing documents.</font></i></span></div><p style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><i><font face="verdana, sans-serif" size="4">Section 10 of the ChAC Charter was included to address ambiguities. We must look into the governing documents for proper definitions given the context of the ChAC, not rely on a dictionary.</font></i></p><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-2819615387879344775"><div dir="ltr">
<blockquote style="margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-width:3px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(200,200,200)">
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Therefore, the consensus poll, equated here to a formal vote, is valid under Section 7.5 of the ChAC Charter.</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is not the case. This is not a valid vote under 7.5 of the ChAC charter as this poll/vote was not taken during a ChAC meeting.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
While there was strong support from those who did vote/poll, it does not meet the requirements to trigger a formal reply from the BoT. Having said this (and as mentioned earlier), the ChAC-SC recognises the strong support from those who voted and as a result
will request a reply from the BoT. Unless a new vote/poll is held and it is verified that each eligible voting chapter has received their virtual ballot paper, this is as good as it's going to get.</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regards,<br>
Christopher Hawker</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_EmbeddedFont,Aptos_MSFontService,Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
P.S. To avoid any ambiguity, I do not have an opinion regarding challenging the interpretation of the polling results and this email is simply to clarify some definitions, which may make things easier to understand. I am also not affiliated with the ChAC-SC,
BoT, or any other ISOC mechanism other than my position on the board for the Australian chapter. This is also sent in my personal capacity.</div>
<div id="m_-2819615387879344775appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_-2819615387879344775divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>> on behalf of Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 8, 2024 12:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a> <<a href="mailto:0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com" target="_blank">0F9Dn000000QayiKAC@post.dn-71ceimaa.usa576.chatter.salesforce.com</a>>; ISOC Chapter Delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Chapter-delegates] The results of the recent polls regarding two issues from the Puerto Rico Chapter and the proposed test for transmission to the BoT.</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Dear ChAC-SC,</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
ISOC Puerto Rico Board formally challenges the interpretation of the recent polling results regarding the two proposals submitted by our chapter to the ChAC-SC. The current stance, which prevents these proposals from being sent as formal advice due to an alleged
insufficient participation level, is based on a misinterpretation of our governing documents.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The phrase “…which shall be by a majority of those with rights to vote…” in Section 6 of the ChAC Rules and Procedures (ChAC RoPs) was intended to include only chapters in good standing with a designated ChAC delegate. The term "majority" is not explicitly
defined in the Rules and Procedures and is thus subject to interpretation, creating ambiguity. Section 10 of the same document addresses such ambiguities: “In any case of ambiguity... the provision of the [ChAC] Charter shall prevail.”</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
The ChAC Charter (ChAC C), Section 7.5, clearly states: “Formal votes, which shall be by a majority of those present at the meeting, are only to be used if rough consensus cannot be reached.” This means the participants, not the entire electorate, are counted
for formal votes.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Therefore, the consensus poll, equated here to a formal vote, is valid under Section 7.5 of the ChAC Charter. Both proposals received majority support from those who participated, thus meeting the requirements for formal advice submission. Treating these as
recommendations undermines the Charter’s intent.</p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:medium;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
</p>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">ISOC Puerto Rico Board insists that both proposals be transmitted to the ISOC Board as formal advice. </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">-ed</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:29 PM Cheryl Langdon-Orr via Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">The message you find attached outlines the procedures and results of the poll conducted by the Chapters Advisory Council (ChAC) of the Internet Society, conducted via Survey Monkey between June 17th and July
1st, and aimed to gather support for two proposals from the Puerto Rico Chapter among the 101 Chapters with voting rights. The first proposal was to open the Chapter Delegate email list to all Chapter Members as observers, while the second was to reinstate
funding for the ISOC LIVE video and archiving services.<br>
<br>
The results showed that while a majority of responding Chapters supported both proposals, the required level of support for approval required by the ChAC Rules and Procedures for sending advice to the Board of Trustees still needs to be reached. Specifically,
66.04% voted in favour of the first proposal, and for the second, 88.68% voted in favour. However, due to the rules requiring a majority of all eligible Chapters to vote 'yes,' the proposals still need to pass.
<br>
<br>
Despite the ChAC being unable to send “formal advice” to the Board of Trustees, the ChAC Steering Committee is taking a proactive step. We propose sending a “recommendation” to the BoT regarding the two proposals since their approval was clear among the poll
respondents.<br>
<br>
I've included more details in the attached PDF. If you need additional information or access to the specific results and discussions, we have also included below reference links to summaries and presentations available on Box.com.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Cheryl Langdon-Or</i></font><font size="4" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>r</i></font><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">, </font></div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Chair 2024 of the ChAC -SC</font></div>
<div style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="bottom" width="107" style="line-height:0;vertical-align:bottom;padding-right:10px;padding-top:20px;padding-bottom:20px">
<a href="https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><img alt="" width="105" height="70" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: block; border: 1px solid rgb(238, 238, 238);" src="https://thumbs.about.me/thumbnail/users/c/h/e/cheryl.langdonorr_emailsig.jpg?_1325540751_01">
</a></td>
<td align="left" valign="bottom" style="line-height:1.1;vertical-align:bottom;padding-top:20px;padding-bottom:20px">
<img width="1" height="1" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; overflow: hidden;" src="https://about.me/t/sig?u=cheryl.LangdonOrr">
<div style="font-size:18px;font-weight:bold;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:"Proxima Nova",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
Cheryl Langdon-Orr</div>
<a href="https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb" style="text-decoration:none;font-size:12px;color:rgb(43,130,173);font-family:"Proxima Nova",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr
</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
<a href="https://community.internetsociety.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://community.internetsociety.org</a>.<br>
-<br>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
<span>-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><b>Notice</b>:</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">This email may contain confidential information, is subject to legal privilege, and
is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><b>Notice</b>:</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">This email may contain confidential information, is subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.</span><br></div></div></div>