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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/09/2021 01:18, Andrew Sullivan
via Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20210913221839.2rgx7cr6cn5j2a44@outlook.office365.com"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">In section 4.1 "Engaging the Internet
Community" I am surprised that ISOC is not mentioned at all as
being a representative of all Internet end users. Why is ISOC
not seen as representative of end users worldwide?
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think the document goes out of its way especially to note that
there really _isn't_ anyone who is a representative of all
Internet end users. For my part, I don't believe it is possible
to collect such representation into a single organization. What I
think is true is that the Internet Society _as a society_ could
probably do a better job of capturing and channelling the views of
various kinds of users into IETF discussions about technology. I
will note that many (I haven't checked whether all) of the people
explicitly acknowledged in the document are Internet Society
members, so that is certainly encouraging.
<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Andrew,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Thanks for the lengthy and detailed response. I'd like to focus
on one aspect - who speaks on behalf of Internet end users.
Indeed the ISOC Mission statement:</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/mission/">https://www.internetsociety.org/mission/</a></p>
<p>surprisingly does not state that as a mission of the Internet
Society. It alludes to it but doesn't state it. Perhaps that is
an oversight that needs to be rectified. ISOC has had SIGs of end
users:</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/sigs/">https://www.internetsociety.org/sigs/</a></p>
<p>and is now in the process of creating new SIGs - which are
basically Internet end users interested in a certain aspect of the
Internet. </p>
<p>So why can't ISOC position itself as the voice of the end user?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Why am I raising this issue? </p>
<p>Over the past 40 years the Internet has been a decentralized
network and we have all enjoyed its evolution. Over the past year
and over the next 3 years the Internet will transition into a
centralized network with almost all data flowing via approximately
10 mega-corporations. </p>
<p>Examples: </p>
<p>- DoH:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://labs.ripe.net/author/bert_hubert/centralised-doh-is-bad-for-privacy-in-2019-and-beyond/">https://labs.ripe.net/author/bert_hubert/centralised-doh-is-bad-for-privacy-in-2019-and-beyond/</a><br>
</p>
<p>- Apple's Private Relay: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://419.consulting/private-relay">https://419.consulting/private-relay</a>
[download the roundtable report]<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It has recently come to my attention via a technical forum I am
involved with that over the past few years the IETF has been sort
of hijacked by massive corporations who can send dozens of
employees to attend the IETF and work on standards. These
corporations realized the mass potential they could garner by
transitioning the Internet into a centralized system. Who's voice
was not heard? The end user's voice. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>If the consensus is that ISOC's mandate is not to voice the plea
of the end user then I will drop this issue. Technical people see
the beauty of centralized Internet system. Is is up to the end
users to say "I do not trust such a system and suggest not moving
to a centralized Internet".</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Hank Nussbacher</p>
<p>ISOC-IL<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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