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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 23/07/2020 8:50 am, Dave Burstein
via Chapter-delegates wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMT+QqgQZQnhHi=_xsTHJPm0b-iyfVLN9yM+RyhFnnfnfA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif"><br>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">Whatever the history and intent of delegates,
ISOC's problem is too little communication among chapters and
members, not too much. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes - but we all (well, many) have day jobs, and already spend
most of our days glued to day-job-email. Won't speak for others,
but the last thing I want to do when I get home to the family is
spend my evenings clearing volunteering-email out as well.</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMT+QqgQZQnhHi=_xsTHJPm0b-iyfVLN9yM+RyhFnnfnfA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">We definitely should include all chapter board
members, as has been the practice for years in many cases.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMT+QqgQZQnhHi=_xsTHJPm0b-iyfVLN9yM+RyhFnnfnfA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:trebuchet
ms,sans-serif">Only a handful of threads here are started by
group members, so that doesn't result in an overload in our
mailbox. Most of the volume is ISOC announcements.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>The flood of 16 or more messages in this thread alone overnight
that greeted me this morning, plus the past days dozens about bank
accounts etc, would suggest otherwise. In our chapter's case,
general non-exec board members usually request fairly quickly to
be taken off the list due to the email-floods that break out, and
I de-list them as named chapter reps 'Board Directors' in AMS to
action this. It generally only the four or five executive
office-bearers who remain on this list.</p>
<p>It might be different if the topics of discussion were actually
whats happening with chapters in different territories, but so
much of it is internal administrivia and <span class="ILfuVd
NA6bn"><span class="hgKElc">omphaloskepsis</span></span>.
Necessary, important and vital internal administrivia to be sure,
but our non-exec directors interested in high-level governance of
the chapter would anticipate getting a summary email from one of
the office-bearers if anything came up that was relevant to our
particular chapter anyway.</p>
<p>On the original topic of the question, I think it is important to
have a 'safe space' away from quoting journalists to discuss
internal arrangements. I prefer the term 'private' than 'secret',
but a private space assists people feel comfortable asking and
answering and contributing to sensitive discussions. Like the
making of sausages, openness and transparency of process is
important for confidence in the result, but that doesn't mean
every utterance needs to be exposed.<br>
</p>
Paul.
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="86">--
Paul Brooks
Chair, Internet Australia
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.brooks@internet.org.au">paul.brooks@internet.org.au</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internet.org.au">https://www.internet.org.au</a></pre>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAUuzMT+QqgQZQnhHi=_xsTHJPm0b-iyfVLN9yM+RyhFnnfnfA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:35
PM Alfredo Calderon via Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Dear Christine:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Eduardo makes a valid observation. The members of the
list does not agree with the definition you provide. I
understood that it was for the designated 'delegates' of
each Chapter/SIG. I am starting to believe that the whole
purpose of this list has been "lost".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can someone clearly, what was/is the
charter/mission/agenda of this group?<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:57 AM,
Eduardo Diaz via Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">Then
the list should be renamed to: Chapter-Officers.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large">-ed</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 22,
2020 at 11:55 AM Christine Saegesser via
Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
Hi Greg,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Chapter “Leaders” on the
Chapter-Delegates list are all persons listed
as “Chapter Officers” in the Chapter Portal.
For some Chapters, these are the President,
Secretary, Treasurer, ChAC representative,
etc., some others also include the members of
their Boards. As the terminology for these
positions varies across regions, countries and
languages, we’re using the term “Officer” in
the Chapter Portal. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is thus the list of “Officers” as
defined by each Chapter/SIG that is synched
onto the “Chapter-Delegates” list. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hope this helps. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christine </div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 22. Jul 2020, at 16:34, Greg
Shatan <<a
href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">greg@isoc-ny.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'm
curious to know what the definition
of "Chapter Leader" is, and whether
there is (or should be) a different
definition of "Chapter Delegate." </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If
there are "over 110 Chapters" and
SIGs as stated on the ISOC website,
that implies that there are, on
average, 7+ Leaders/Delegates for
each Chapter/SIG. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Does
that reflect the intent and purpose
of this list? Thanks!</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
<div>
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<div dir="ltr"><font
color="#073763">-------------------------------------------------------------------</font>-</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"
color="#0b5394"><b>Greg
Shatan |
President,
ISOC-NY</b></font>
<div><font
face="verdana,
sans-serif"><a
href="mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">greg@isoc-ny.org</a> </font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1CfISkzienX58uUrkiR1MiyDOolyKT7-3&revid=0B34elQ4FY0yVeU96SCtabVdHcXF2NW1LT0FtOUNaa203WmJnPQ"
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</div>
<div><i
style="font-family:"trebuchet
ms",sans-serif"><font color="#0b5394">"The Internet is for
everyone"</font></i></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 8:33 AM
Christine Saegesser via
Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>Hi all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As to the question about how
many members there are on the
Chapter-Delegates list: there
are currently 877 members,
including all current Chapter
and SIG Leaders, as well as some
ISOC staff and Board members.
The number of members on this
list depends on the number of
current Chapter/SIG officers
listed at any given time by the
Chapters via the Chapter Portal.
The list is kept in synch with
the offers listed there. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To your question Alfredo, we
are not sure on what basis this
decision was taken in 2009, but
it is quite possible that this
change happened by accident as
others have mentioned on the
list. We have therefore set it
back to the original intended
status, but would like to get a
sense of what the list members’
preference is via the poll
here: <a
href="https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christine <br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 22. Jul 2020, at
14:13, Alfredo Calderon
via Chapter-delegates <<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">I actually
agree with Veni. The
strangest thing is how
come 1,000 delegates (as
cited) are on the list.
Is it not suppose to be
updated based on the
“actual-active”
delegates per chapter.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When and why was it
changed from private
to public? I believe
that gors against the
whole purpose of the
list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Even if the idea is
to become a
“transparent”
organization, some
business needs to be
carried-out in an
environment that then
allows the group to
organize ideas that
will be shared in a
coherent and
“consensus way” to the
ISOC community.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My 2 cents!<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Alfredo
Calderon
<div><a
href="mailto:calderon.alfredo@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Email: calderon.alfredo@gmail.com</a></div>
<div>Twitter:
acalderon52</div>
<div>LinkedIn: <a
href="http://pr.linkedin.com/in/acalderon52"
target="_blank"
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<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote
type="cite">On Jul
22, 2020, at 8:01
AM, Judith
Hellerstein via
Chapter-delegates
<<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi
Veni
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree with
you. It should
remain private.
Possibly it was
made public by
accident </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best </div>
<div>Judith <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent
from my iPhone
<div><a
href="mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Judith@jhellerstein.com</a></div>
<div>Skype
ID:Judithhellerstein </div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Jul 22,
2020, at 7:29
AM, Veni
Markovski via
Chapter-delegates <<a href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div
dir="auto">Over
a thousand
people?
Christine,
aren’t the
chapter
delegates a
smaller
number?</div>
<div
dir="auto">As
to the
“secrecy”,
Dave, I see
this more
about question
of trust among
ourselves,
rather than a
secrecy issue.
Given the fact
some people
put names,
addresses and
phones in
their emails,
it could be
also a GDPR
issue, if it’s
published on
ISOC website. </div>
<div
dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div
dir="auto">If
it was started
as a private
list, it
shouldn’t have
been changed
to a public
one. </div>
</div>
<div
dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div
dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 07:17 Dave Burstein via
Chapter-delegates
<<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Christine</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Something
emailed to
over a
thousand
people cannot
be kept
secret, so
this
restriction
makes no
sense.</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">The last two
CEO's of ISOC
declared our
work should be
transparent. </div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Let's live up to
that and only
keep secret
that which
absolutely
must be
secret. </div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">I can't even
find out who
our donors
are, although
I know several
of them
benefit from
our policy
advocacy.</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:"trebuchet ms",sans-serif">Makes us look
like
Astroturf.
Good reporters
will question
our work.</div>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 6:47 AM Christine Saegesser
via
Chapter-delegates
<<a
href="mailto:chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chapter-delegates@elists.isoc.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Dear
Colleagues, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some of
you may have
seen a
question that
came up on the
Internet-Policy list concerning the archive of the Chapter-Delegates
list (see:
<a
href="https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/private/chapter-delegates/</a>). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’d like
to follow-up
here and share
some
background,
but also get a
sense of what
the preference
of the list
members is: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Background: </b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
The
Chapter-Delegates
list is a list
that was
created for
current
Internet
Society
Chapter
leaders to
have a place
to get
information
relevant to
their Chapter,
to their
leadership
positions and
a place for
them to
discuss and
share issues
pertinent to
the Internet
Society
Chapter
community. <br>
<br>
The list was
intended to be
a private
discussion
place for
current
leaders only
and has been
set up like
that in 2005.
The archive
was therefore
also private
to current
list members.<br>
It was brought
to our
attention that
the list
archive was
made public in
2009. We are
not sure on
what basis
this decision
was taken at
the time and
have therefore
set it back to
the original
intended
status.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Question: </b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a
list that is
there for all
of you to use
and we’d thus
like to hear
what the
preference of
the list
members is
with regards
to keeping the
list archives
private (to
the list
members) as
opposed to
making them
public. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please
add your
answer to that
question by
clicking on
this link
before 30
July: <a
href="https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/G7XTRLX</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!!!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Christine </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet
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Chapter
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</blockquote>
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_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet
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Chapter
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
Best regards,<br>
Veni Markovski<br>
<a
href="http://www.veni.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.veni.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>pgp:
5BA1366E <a
href="mailto:veni@veni.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
veni@veni.com</a>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>The
opinions
expressed
above are
those of the
author, <br>
not of any
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associated
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related to <br>
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<br>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>As an
Internet
Society
Chapter
Officer you
are
automatically
subscribed</span><br>
<span>to this
list, which is
regularly
synchronized
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Internet
Society
Chapter Portal
(AMS):</span><br>
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href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a></span><br>
<span>View the
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Society Code
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>As an
Internet Society
Chapter Officer
you are
automatically
subscribed</span><br>
<span>to this
list, which is
regularly
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society
Chapter Officer you are
automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is
regularly synchronized
with the Internet Society
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href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login"
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moz-do-not-send="true">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a><br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter
Officer you are automatically
subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly
synchronized with the Internet
Society Chapter Portal (AMS):<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
<br>
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</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are
automatically subscribed<br>
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
As an Internet Society Chapter Officer you are automatically subscribed
to this list, which is regularly synchronized with the Internet Society Chapter Portal (AMS):
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login">https://admin.internetsociety.org/622619/User/Login</a>
View the Internet Society Code of Conduct: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/">https://www.internetsociety.org/become-a-member/code-of-conduct/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="86">--
Paul Brooks
Chair, Internet Australia
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.brooks@internet.org.au">paul.brooks@internet.org.au</a>
mobile +61414366605
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.internet.org.au">https://www.internet.org.au</a></pre>
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